Téa Braun is the Chief Executive of the Human Dignity Trust. She oversees all of the core legal work of the Trust and has been involved in supporting court cases globally that seek to decriminalise LGBT people and challenge other discriminatory actions against them. She also spearheaded the Trust’s successful expansion into providing technical legal assistance to governments to reform discriminatory sexual offence laws and enact protective legislation. CJLPA : Welcome, Téa Braun. I’d like to begin by thanking you for taking the time to come and interview with The Cambridge Journal of Law, Politics and Art  to discuss your remarkable work at the Human Dignity Trust, an organization dedicated to defending the human rights of LGBT people globally. I would like to begin by asking you about how you got involved in fighting for LGBT rights. You’ve worked in various areas of human rights for many years—was this something that you were interested in pursuing whilst you were working in private legal practice in their early stages of your career?   Téa Braun :   Thank you. I didn’t initially set out to be working in international human rights law. My practice originally was as a commercial litigator, which I very much enjoyed in the early stages of my career, and I enjoyed working with clients in that area. But I think after a few years working in that area, despite enjoying it, I realized that the commercial context wasn’t something that was going to satisfy me for an entire career. I wanted to do something a little bit more people-focused and work in ways where the law could have an impact on real people’s lives. So it was a decision to move away from a commercial practice and into the international human rights space. As a result of that decision, I studied for a master’s degree in international human rights law, and it all evolved from there.   CJLPA : Following your work as a gender equality adviser and as a human rights adviser for the Commonwealth Secretariat, what led you to work specifically in the LGBT rights segment?   TB : After completing my master’s degree, I worked in many areas that always had a focus on discrimination, specifically in how people are discriminated against or have lesser opportunities or access because of their personal attributes. That was always partly informed by a very strong interest in women’s human rights, in particular, and how sex and gender define life chances for many people around the world. There’s always been a thread for me about women’s human rights. With that in mind, I worked throughout my career on issues ranging from child trafficking, where I took a particular interest in how girls are trafficked for labour exploitation, to indigenous land rights in Africa. Again, looking not only at indigenous interests overall and the exploitation of their land rights but also at how women within those communities might have different perspectives, experiences, or access to engagement, even on what the priorities were. I aimed to help all members of the community engage in international mechanisms like the African Commission on Human and People’s Rights at the time.   I also worked very directly on women’s human rights in the Pacific region, where I was the gender equality advisor to an inter-governmental organization, addressing a full range of women’s rights issues, from economic rights to health to violence, political participation, and more. This natural evolution led to working with a similar group of people who, for different reasons but in a very similar way, were marginalized and discriminated against simply because of their identity, sexual orientation, or gender identity. I was approached by a group of lawyers creating what was then a startup, the Human Dignity Trust, to develop and run the legal work. It was a novel venture for all of us at the time. The Human Dignity Trust was formed by a wonderful barrister, a human rights lawyer named Tim Otty KC, at Blackstone Chambers. With him and others involved at the time, we developed this work. What appealed to me was both the application of my background in equality and non-discrimination and the use of strategic litigation. Having a background as a lawyer and an advocate, the combination of addressing a particular human rights issue and using the courts as a mechanism to try to effect change was very attractive.   CJLPA : That’s a remarkable background in human rights, and very wide-ranging. As the Trust works in a huge variety of jurisdictions, and part of your role as chief executive is to oversee all the core legal work, what does this entail in terms of how you work with the core team in London, together with the activists and the delegates within jurisdictions across the world?   TB :   So, we have a core team in London that has grown since our startup days many years ago. Initially, it was just a couple of us developing and implementing the work. Fortunately, we’ve had a lot of success and have expanded as a result. We now have a legal department with a head of legal and some senior lawyers. I work closely with them. In the early days, I developed our legal strategy and processes for assessing the prospects of successful strategic litigation. Over time, I expanded our work to include legislative reform. I’m still very involved in the overall strategy and our approach to technical legal work. Now, I have a fantastic core team of lawyers who can implement the work in different regions of the world.   Every part of our work involves local partners who are central decision-makers. We provide technical legal support on request. From day one, we’ve worked closely with local partners, civil society organizations, litigants, and, in the context of legislative reform, governments. It’s a close collaboration between myself, my team, and our legal panel, which includes large international law firms and barristers in private practice working pro bono with us. We have this relatively extensive team collaborating with wonderful local partners and lawyers over many years to advance these legal interventions.   CJLPA : The work that the Trust does is incredibly important, and it’s been involved in some really impressive legal victories over the years since it was founded. In previous interviews, you’ve spoken about how the case in Belize was instrumental in kickstarting a series of court victories across the region, such as in Barbados. Why is strategic litigation such a key part of the work that the trust does?   TB :   In an ideal world, where there are laws that discriminate against a particular group or groups, and it’s clear based on the country’s constitution or its international legal obligations that those laws are non-compliant with those obligations, the government would be reforming those laws, taking steps to ensure that its laws and practices are compliant with constitutional and international norms. Unfortunately, often that doesn’t happen, especially in key areas like LGBT human rights. This is because it’s not considered politically expedient in many of these countries, where there’s social and cultural hostility towards marginalized groups, such as LGBT people. So there’s little motivation and little political will often to do the right thing.   The courts then become the place where recourse is sought and achieved. The whole model of the Human Dignity Trust is that we want to take what can often be a very heated and emotive issue away from the public space and into the rational space of the courtroom, where all that matters is the law. Personal opinion doesn’t matter, majority opinion doesn’t matter; what matters is the law and adherence to the Constitution and international human rights obligations. Strategic litigation is vital for those who don’t otherwise have a voice or sufficient numbers to affect political decisions, such as law reform. This has been a significant part of our success and the success of many others working in this space. In the courts, which are independent and able to analyse purely the law, it is stated that, regardless of majority views or religious views, everybody has the same fundamental human rights, and the court must uphold those.   So, we very much need strategic litigation. In the context of something like Belize, it was the first case of its kind in the Caribbean region on this particular issue. No other country had a case of this kind on this topic in the region. It was novel and ultimately precedent-setting, where the court declared that these laws violate the Belizean constitution and international human rights law. It not only struck down the law in Belize but created a bit of a platform and ultimately a domino effect in the region, where others were inspired to bring similar cases. Courts in those countries were able to look to the precedent in Belize, as well as other comparative legal cases from around the world, and reach similar conclusions. We are seeing that domino effect with several other wins in the region.   CJLPA : You have noted that strategic litigation is important because social influences don’t impact the courtroom. Does the wide variety of reasons for discrimination against LGBT people, such as colonial legacies or religious influences, affect your legal strategy in the courtroom, depending on the type of country and its social makeup? Or would you say that you take a very similar litigation strategy into each country, given that the courtroom is meant to be impartial?   TB :   Yeah, absolutely, we have to consider those factors. There is some degree of those influences in every country. As much as it is ultimately a question of law, judges are human as well. The opponents in the courtroom are making those arguments. It is very common for opposition to LGBT human rights and to decriminalization in particular, to be centred around cultural, religious, and social norms, as well as health-related arguments. The typical argument in response in defence of these types of cases, whether from the government or intervenors, is based on things like public morality, exceptions in the Constitution, or restrictions on human rights found in international human rights law and constitutional law. They argue that, yes, there’s a right to non-discrimination, or yes, there’s a right to dignity or privacy, but they are restricted rights. They’re subject to exceptions like public morality, and public morality is interpreted to mean majoritarian views, religious views, and similar perspectives.   We always counter these arguments with an understanding that public morality doesn’t mean majoritarian views because if that were the case, no minority would have any human rights. Rather, it means constitutional morality, which is based on the founding principles of the Constitution, including human dignity, human rights, equality for all, and fundamentally the protection of minorities. Similarly, arguments are made based on health-related grounds, often asserting that you need to criminalize LGBT people because certain groups, like gay men and trans women, have much higher rates of HIV prevalence. In their view, criminalization is necessary to stop the activity that leads to this health issue. However, public health analyses make it clear that criminalization exacerbates a public health crisis by pushing people underground, outside the reach of public health information and prevention efforts. Criminalizing individuals who engage in activities consistent with their identity increases HIV prevalence. So, we have to engage with these arguments and bring the courts along with the legal or scientific reasoning against them.   CJLPA : One of the main goals of the Journal is finding ways to hold governments accountable for policies that endanger civil rights, including LGBT rights. We’re interested to hear about how you spearheaded the Trust’s expansion into providing technical legal assistance to governments and have now helped multiple countries draft new bills on sexual offence laws, hate crime, and equal opportunities. Can you tell us a bit more about how you initiate this type of work with the government? Do you approach them through activists in a jurisdiction, or do they approach you?   TB :   That work came much later in our existence as an organization, and it originated from a recognition that, as I mentioned earlier, the ideal way to change these laws is through reform rather than through LGBT people having to undergo litigation to sue the government; the government should be doing the right thing. There’s that background realization, but also the fact that several countries have decriminalized LGBT people through reform, sometimes through wholesale legislative reform of their entire Penal Code or at least the Sexual Offences provisions within the Penal Code. These provisions are often vastly out of date, still written in a Victorian language and based on Victorian values spread during colonial times.   We started researching the extent to which our access to technical legal assistance and expertise could aid in advancing legislative reform in those countries where there was some degree of political will to consider that type of reform. This coincided with the UK being the Chair-in-Office of the Commonwealth from 2018 to 2020. The Commonwealth is significant in the decriminalization picture due to its colonial history. Through discussions with the UK Government, there was an apology from Prime Minister Theresa May acknowledging that the UK had spread these laws around the world and that those laws were wrong then and are wrong now. The UK committed to assisting any Commonwealth Government that wanted to review its laws. We, along with a few others, ended up being the mechanism to provide that support. There was a public announcement to Commonwealth leaders about the support available for any Commonwealth government interested.   Some approaches came to us as a result of that announcement, while others came through us identifying countries that might be amenable to legislative reform and approaching them to gauge their interest in technical assistance. Importantly, we worked with civil society in those countries to assess whether legislative reform was a reasonable prospect and if they would welcome technical legal assistance. This approach has elicited very positive responses from a few countries. Often, these countries find themselves in a situation where there is some degree of political will or recognition that these laws need to be reformed. I’m talking about LGBT criminalization, but also about rape laws, sexual assault laws, and ages of consent—many aspects that are outdated and not human rights compliant. These countries might lack the technical or human resource capacity, often having only one or two legislative drafters for the entire country who handle all legislation. When the offer of technical expertise and legal assistance is made, it is often welcomed. This has enabled us to work with a few governments, working closely to draft human rights-compliant bills in these areas.   CJLPA : Have you found are any challenges or restrictions that have come from working with governments trying to draft new laws, as opposed to the earlier approach of standing against those failing to protect human rights in court?   TB :   Yes, and no. There’s obviously the potential for that, and we’re very open in that we do both. Ultimately, they’re achieving the same end, just different ways of achieving it. We have worked in some countries where both ongoing strategic litigation and legislative reform are happening in parallel. We manage this very carefully and are transparent about it. They are different ways of achieving the same end, and we often find that attorneys general or ministers of justice may be sympathetic to the need for change, even if they don’t have complete influence over whether that change is effected through legislative reform. If a case is filed, they must defend it, but we believe they should argue strongly to their government that it shouldn’t be defended, and that the necessary changes are needed.   Being able to offer both competing or complementary types of input can help, especially with governments in the movable middle that may not be entirely hostile but lack a clear political will in these areas. In some cases, they may prefer to see change through the courts, making it easier for them to comply with court decisions. It can also aid in advancing a legislative agenda by demonstrating a commitment to doing the right thing either domestically or internationally. So, strategic litigation and legislative reform can complement each other well.   CJLPA : So, would you say it’s the makeup or environment in the country that impacts how governments want to be seen and thus informs your choice of method?   TB :   Absolutely. I mean, at the end of the day, politicians are vote-seekers, which isn’t to say there isn’t the odd exception. There have been countries, such as the Seychelles, which decriminalized despite the usual social conservatism and religious pressures. The President simply decided and made a commitment at the UN that he was going to do this, and he did it swiftly. Politicians often fear fallout if they go against social majoritarian views, thinking they’ll pay the political price. However, there are many examples, including in Seychelles, where that simply didn’t happen. Doing the right thing doesn’t cause the sky to fall. There is an inherent aspect of vote-seeking and fear in politicians. However, true leaders can and do make change even in the face of opposition, bringing the populace with them. They implement change correctly and reasonably swiftly, and because of their leadership skills, the sky doesn’t fall. So, there is quite a mix, but in many jurisdictions where the political and social structures are too hostile, the only potential avenue is through the courts.   CJLPA : We now want to transition slightly in terms of the Trust’s relationship with the activists and litigants. You’ve previously spoken about how activists and litigants within the jurisdictions that you work in are the heroes and are often working in very dangerous and hostile environments. How did the Trust initially build relationships with its partners?   TB :   So, of course, at the very outset, nobody knew us, and we had to build those relationships. It was a multi-pronged process involving understanding the global legal landscape of all the criminalizing jurisdictions. We did detailed work to examine the individual contexts in those countries, including the legal framework, judicial framework, civil society framework, and international ratification framework, to identify where there might be prospects for success in this type of litigation. It was a matter of reaching out to civil society in those countries, letting them know who we were, what we wanted to support, and whether they had considered litigation or might be open to it. This dialogue was slow and led by local activists. While there wasn’t much strategic litigation at that time, there were a few examples worldwide where litigation had been effective on this particular topic.   Almost without exception, people were interested in it, having had a long-standing desire for change but maybe not considering using the courts as a mechanism for change. We developed friendships, partnerships, and, importantly, trust with local activists. Being based in London as international actors, we approached this work with a high degree of sensitivity to local ownership and realities, acknowledging that local activists work and live in hostile contexts. They are the ones who will have to bring a case and face the profile that comes with it. In any new jurisdiction, a lot of our work is about building trust, relationships, confidence, awareness, and a sense of security and preparedness for what it involves to be involved in strategic litigation, because these are multi-year cases. They sometimes come with security risks, and people may face media exposure. We have a strong media and communication support function, and when necessary, we assist with security assessments and plans. Much of this work is done before any case is filed.   CJLPA : As you mentioned, the potential litigants come from very hostile environments, and security support is often required. Could you explain the type of discrimination and harassment that they face within their countries when they want to begin with litigation?   TB :   It’s the full spectrum. It’s very much dependent on the country; some are more tolerant than others. But it’s the full spectrum from petty annoyances to grave violence, sometimes fatal, and everything in between. Petty annoyances range from people being harassed on the street and spoken to in ways that undermine them, to things like discrimination in housing, employment, education, and health if they’re perceived as being LGBT. Individuals may be marginalized or ostracized by their family members and communities once they’re known or suspected to be LGBT, leading false lives of heterosexuality to avoid such issues. There are experiences of forced or pressured marriages, particularly impacting women who often have less economic and social power, making them dependent on male relationships for survival. This can result in living a life of sexual violence, and being forced into relationships they wouldn’t choose. On the other end, there’s violence such as being chased down the street, attacked, run over, shot, or stabbed; people are killed. The extent of these experiences varies significantly by country, with some being more hostile than others. Regardless of the visible hostility, there’s always an overarching stigma in these countries that LGBT individuals carry with them—the stigma of being considered unequal, different, and even criminal in their own country. This stigma hangs over people regardless of the degree of visible hostility they may face.   CJLPA : Thinking on a broader scale, aside from litigation, from your perspective, what other approaches should individuals, charities, and NGOs be taking to further the protection of LGBT rights in their own countries?   TB :   I would say it’s a real mix of things to be done, as with everything. Our piece is one very specific part of a much bigger puzzle. There’s a lot of work needed in education to address the ignorance prevalent in our societies. Engaging with faith communities is crucial, given that they often oppose and resist change in these areas. Building support and acceptance of diversity within more moderate or progressive faith communities is key, given their influence in communities. The UN and regional advocacy play a significant role. Supporting LGBT communities is essential, providing legal assistance, health access, and shelter for those ostracized from their families or communities. Poverty and health issues can be severe in the LGBT community in many countries, leading to homelessness and, in some cases, involvement in sex work due to limited economic choices. Access to healthcare and economic opportunities may be restricted compared to the general population. It’s a broad mix of efforts, requiring many years of work to advance the overall picture.   CJLPA : On a final note, what do you think is the most memorable achievement of the Trust since you’ve become chief executive?   TB :   Oh, that’s a hard one. I’m proud of all the cases we have helped to support and win. There are real moments of vindication for the people involved in these countries. The Belize case I mentioned was monumental as it set the stage, and the cases that followed in the Caribbean—Antigua, St. Kitts, and Barbados—have been equally powerful. More victories are coming, along with decisions from around the world. Another important victory I’m proud of is a groundbreaking case at the UN. We brought the first-ever case of its kind to the CEDAW Committee. In the UN space, there had only been one decision on decriminalisation at any UN Human Rights Tribunal—the Toonen case against Australia at the UN Human Rights Committee under the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR) from the 1990s. No case had been brought since.   We brought the first case of its kind to the CEDAW Committee to establish that criminalising women engaged in same-sex intimacy was a violation of the CEDAW convention. We won that case, I think, in 2022. It was a significant moment as it had early seeds and research from many years ago. We integrated the perspective of women’s human rights, examining how these laws impact different constituencies within what we call the LGBT community, recognising that women are affected differently than men and trans individuals are impacted differently than gay, lesbian, and bisexual individuals. We looked at the various ways these groups are impacted and criminalised, and how these issues need to be advanced in both domestic and international courts. The CEDAW case was a significant part of that, and I’m proud of it. There would be more to talk about, but those are a few.   CJLPA : Well, those are incredible achievements to discuss. Thank you for taking the time to interview with us and discuss the remarkable work the Human Dignity Trust does to protect human rights for the LGBT community around the world. It’s a fascinating discussion, not only in terms of insight into how LGBT rights are being violated and the complexity in tackling this but also the different legal avenues available to pursue accountability for the lack of human rights compliance and ultimately helping achieve justice. It’s truly important to get across. So thank you again so much for your time.   TB :   My pleasure. Thank you very much for inviting me. This interview was conducted by Nadia Jahnecke and Abi Dore. Nadia is the Legal Editor and Founder of CJLPA's Special Edition, 'The Human Agenda'. In addition to her role at CJLPA, Nadia is a qualified lawyer in England & Wales specializing in public international law. Abi is a Legal Researcher for CJLPA. In addition to her role at CJLPA, Abi is a qualified lawyer in England and Wales.

1. Historical Overview of Wartime Collaboration   In situations of armed conflict, it is almost inevitable that there will be instances of civilians or combatants cooperating with the opposing side. The parties involved in the conflict often attempt to gain an advantage by turning their opponent's people against them. At the same time, individuals may collaborate with the enemy for various reasons, including personal conviction, desperation, or coercion.[1] As historian Gerhard Hirschfeld says, wartime collaboration ‘is as old as war and the occupation of foreign territory’.[2]   There is ongoing debate about the precise definition of collaboration.[3] However, common practices can be categorised as wartime collaboration, such as sharing information with the opposing side, defecting to fight for the enemy’s forces, engaging in propaganda activities on behalf of the enemy, or providing administrative support to an occupying power.[4]    Notably, international humanitarian law, which applies in armed conflicts, does not explicitly prohibit these activities or the recruitment of collaborators.[5] However, it does forbid the use of coercion for such purposes, particularly against prisoners of war or civilians in occupied territories.[6] The repercussions for those involved in collaboration may not become apparent until after the armed conflict has ended. This delay in consequences typically occurs when evidence of their actions becomes known, power dynamics shift, and a relative sense of stability returns, making it possible to hold these individuals accountable for their actions.[7]   There are well-documented cases of wartime collaboration in various parts of the world during the tumultuous era of World War II (WWII). Notably, countries like Norway, France, and Poland grappled with the complex issue of collaboration in the face of occupation and conflict. Wartime collaboration manifested differently, blurring the lines between cooperation and coercion.   In Norway, the collaborationist government under Vidkun Quisling collaborated with the Nazi occupiers, while a robust Norwegian resistance movement (Motstandsbevegelsen) actively opposed them.[8] This divergence in responses and allegiances raised intricate questions of justice, accountability, and reconciliation in the post-war period.[9] France, too, witnessed a multifaceted landscape of collaboration during WWII. The Vichy regime, ruled by Marshal Philippe Pétain, collaborating with the Nazi occupiers, stood in stark contrast to the French Resistance (La Résistance), exemplifying the ideological and geographic divisions within the country.[10] The aftermath of the war led to a complex web of legal proceedings, reflecting the challenges of distinguishing between voluntary collaboration and collaboration under duress.[11] Similarly, Poland’s experience during WWII was marked by diverse responses to the occupation. The Polish Underground State (Polskie Państwo Podziemne), including organisations like the Home Army (Armia Krajowa), actively resisted the Nazi occupation and Soviet influence.[12] However, collaboration, whether driven by opportunism or coercion, coexisted alongside this resistance. Post-war Poland grappled with the legal complexities surrounding collaborators, shedding light on the intricacies of determining the extent of collaboration.[13] It has taken two generations for most countries that Nazi Germany occupied to admit that it was the resisters, not the collaborators, who were the minority.[14]   During WWII, there were movements of wartime collaboration with Nazi Germany in Ukraine. By September 1941, the German-occupied territory of Ukraine had been partitioned into two new German administrative entities: the District of Galicia under the Nazi General Government and the Reichskommissariat Ukraine. Initially, Ukrainians showed support for the German invasion of the Soviet Union.[15] Still, the majority turned away from wartime collaboration when they witnessed the brutal and inhumane policies of the German occupation regime. In response, some Ukrainians decided to resist the German occupying forces and joined either the Red Army or irregular partisan units engaged in guerrilla warfare against the Germans. Ukrainian nationalists held the hope that their enthusiastic collaboration with Germans might eventually lead to the re-establishment of an independent Ukrainian state.[16]    Between 1945 and 1987, the Soviet Union made concerted and extensive efforts to depict Ukrainian nationalists as war criminals and to convince Western nations of their guilt. Some research has indicated that it was the Stalinist policies in Western Ukraine, particularly the imposition of Russian culture and language, that compelled local Ukrainians to resist the Soviet regime.[17] Following Ukraine’s independence in 1991, numerous nationalists who had been unjustly convicted were politically rehabilitated and even glorified as heroes of a sovereign Ukraine.[18]   2. Russian Invasion of Ukraine   Who could have imagined that in the 21st century, Ukraine would once again have to confront the issue of wartime collaboration? In 2014, Russia annexed Crimea and initiated a war in eastern Ukraine.[19] Then, on 24 February 2022, Russia launched a full-scale invasion of Ukraine, an act of aggression recognised by a United Nations General Assembly resolution supported by 141 countries.[20] This is the largest conflict in Europe since WWII and has triggered a massive migration crisis[21] and the deaths of many civilians.[22] As of now, Russia continues to occupy approximately 16% of Ukrainian territory.[23] Like any major armed conflict, this war has seen instances of wartime collaboration.   In response to the Russian invasion, the Ukrainian Parliament swiftly enacted laws that introduced amendments to the Ukrainian Criminal Code regarding wartime collaboration.[24] These amendments were passed by a majority of parliament members, even without prior discussion, and they imposed strict penalties for collaboration, including up to 15 years of imprisonment. The potential collaborators' scope is quite extensive, according to the new amendments. During the occupation, people were trapped in a terrible situation. They sometimes needed to collaborate with the occupying forces to survive, although some willingly sided with the occupiers. However, wartime collaboration is not always clear-cut. This scenario has led to debates among academics and activists regarding the interpretation, principles, legal clarity, enforcement, fairness of punishment and ethical implications for wartime collaboration under the new Laws. Adopting such legislative changes and introducing new categories of crimes have led to numerous appeals from residents of occupied territories to human rights organisations, asking them to clarify whether their activities on the occupied territory can be considered collaboration.[25]   The situation in Ukraine became increasingly complex, especially after the liberation of Kharkiv[26] and parts of the Kherson[27] regions in September-November 2022. Many people who had lived under Russian occupation for over six months became potential collaborators. This posed a challenging dilemma: how to distinguish innocent civilians from collaborators? The liberation of these regions was followed by a period of uncertainty and the need for careful scrutiny.[28] The situation in Ukraine was further complicated by Russia's annexation of certain territories and its policy of ‘passportisation’, where Russian passports were forcibly granted to thousands of Ukrainians.[29] This move by Russia aimed to solidify its control over these regions and further blurred the lines between collaboration and coercion.   To identify potential collaborators, Ukrainian authorities and local communities faced the daunting task of conducting investigations. It's crucial to recognise that not everyone who lived under occupation during this period became a collaborator, and distinguishing between those who were forced into cooperation and those who willingly collaborated was essential. Compassion, due process, and adherence to human rights principles are vital to handling these complex situations. Also, considering the fact that according to Freedom House, Ukraine's Freedom Rating dropped from 61 points in 2021 to 50 in 2023, reflecting various issues, including the rule of law in the country.[30]   On 16 March, the Movement Chesno launched the ‘Register of State Traitors’, a platform where activists voluntarily provide information about politicians, media figures, judges, officials, priests, and celebrities who harm the state’s sovereignty, territorial integrity, and informational security of Ukraine.[31] As of September 2023, this Register includes 1,304 individuals. Also, the Kherson’s ‘Collaborators database’ has been a platform where anonymous sources publish information about individuals suspected of having connections with Russian authorities.[32] Daily, the channel releases between one and five new ‘dossiers’ containing such allegations. By the end of July 2023, the channel had already identified at least 2,000 alleged collaborators in the Kherson region alone.[33] This initiative has raised concerns about privacy and the potential consequences of such accusations on the lives of those named in these dossiers. In contrast to the previous Registry, it is noteworthy that most individuals on this list are not politicians, judges, or government officials; they are ordinary citizens. This shift in the list’s composition underscores the broad reach of these accusations, affecting ordinary people in the Kherson region.   The issue of wartime collaboration is quite a debatable topic.[34] Also, it was a central focus during the Ukrainian Recovery conference in London in June 2023, where the international community engaged with Ukrainian government representatives and civil society.[35] While advocating for a tough stance on collaborators is widely supported, it is crucial to consider the potential drawbacks of such an approach. Adopting an uncompromising stance may inadvertently hinder Ukraine's immediate endeavours in integration and reconstruction. Moreover, it could pose a long-term threat to social cohesion within the country.[36]   In short, this article aims to investigate the underlying factors behind the introduction of recent legislative amendments on wartime collaboration to the Ukrainian Criminal Code of Ukraine; to conduct a comprehensive analysis of both investigation and judicial practices; to compare the legal provisions within different articles; to identify distinctions and similarities in the various collaborationist activities; to highlight the inherent challenges and shortcomings in the newly implemented legal provisions, emphasising potential issues and ambiguities, and to formulate possible solutions and recommendations for refining the legal framework. The article aims to shed light on the recent legislative innovations in Ukraine concerning wartime collaboration and its implications. Furthermore, it will contribute to the ongoing discourse on balancing the need for legal accountability with preserving human rights during times of conflict.   3. Legal Analysis of Legislative Innovations of 2022   Ukraine has previously attempted to criminalise wartime collaboration. Since the Russian Federation's (RF) aggression began in 2014, the Ukrainian Parliament made three attempts between 2019 and 2021 to amend Ukraine’s Criminal Code regarding wartime collaboration.[37] However, all these efforts proved unsuccessful. Therefore, up until Russia’s invasion in 2022, Ukraine’s Criminal Code contained only one provision addressing collaboration with the enemy—article 111, ‘High treason’.[38]   However, the situation took a dramatic turn with the full-scale invasion of Russia. On 3 March 2022, the Ukrainian Parliament passed Law No 2108-IX,[39] amending the Ukrainian Criminal Code with Article 111-1, ‘Collaborative Activities’. This article introduces criminal liability for various conduct that may be classified as wartime collaboration. According to the explanatory note to this Law, ‘[t]he existing provisions of the Criminal Code did not fully address the new issues arising from the full-scale invasion, necessitating the introduction of a new article to delineate the boundaries of permissible and prohibited conduct for Ukrainian citizens present in temporarily occupied territory’. Article 111-1 is divided into eight  parts, which address various aspects of wartime collaboration and are differentiated by the punishment, ranging from deprivation of the right to hold certain positions for ten  years to life imprisonment if people died due to such collaboration. No official English translation is available, but you can refer to the Analytical Note of the Coalition of Ukrainian NGOs, which provides a comprehensive translation.[40]    As can be discerned from the article, activities formally fall under its purview, such as measures aimed at addressing humanitarian issues in the occupied territory, providing medical services, involvement in pipeline transportation, and the operation of grocery stores etc. Consequently, residents of the occupied territory, particularly those under the temporary control of the Russian army, face the risk of being held criminally accountable for actions that are not socially dangerous but may come under Article 111-1.   However, the Ukrainian Parliament did  not  stop there. In March and April 2022, Parliament passed two additional laws, No 2110-IX[41] and No 2198-IX,[42] introducing new articles into the Ukrainian Criminal Code. These laws added two new articles: Article 111-2, ‘Aiding and abetting the aggressor state’, and Article 436-2 ‘Justification, recognition as legitimate, denial of the armed aggression of the RF against Ukraine, glorification of its participants’.[43]   The amendments to the Ukrainian Criminal Code in March-April 2022 and the practical application of Article 111-1 have revealed several significant issues. These include the complexity in distinguishing between crimes outlined in Article 111 and the ‘new’ articles, namely 111-1, 111-2, and 436-2.   It is also interesting to note that, according to Article 216 of the Ukrainian Criminal Procedure Code, investigative authority for cases under Articles 111-1 and 111-2 falls under the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU).[44] According to part 4 of Article 216, the investigative bodies of the State Bureau of Investigation (DBR) conduct pre-trial investigations into crimes committed by special subjects, such as judges or law enforcement officers. Jurisdiction over cases of this category is not assigned to the Ukrainian National Police (NP). However, in practice, SBU, DBR, and NP conduct pre-trial investigations for such cases.   4. Some Issues with Legal Qualification   The following statistics emerged from introducing ‘new’ articles into effect until September 2023 (Table 1). During this period, a total of 13,405 cases were opened, but only 3,164 were forwarded for court review. In other words, out of all the cases opened for wartime collaboration, only approximately 24% of them made it to court. At the same time, information on the number of open proceedings under certain parts of these articles does not exist. Article Total number of cases opened Suspicion indictment served Cases forwarded to the court 111 3011 1018 584 111-1 6869 2236 1398 111-2 938 175 78 436-2 2587 1308 1104 TOTAL 13405 4737 3164 Table 1. Compiled by the author based on information from the Office of the Prosecutor General of Ukraine .[45]   However, in investigative practice, there is a complexity in distinguishing crimes outlined in Articles 111, 111-1, 111-2, and 436-2. As a result, similar conduct can be categorised under different articles, even within the proceedings handled by a single regional prosecutor's office. Let’s examine a few examples.   4.1. Part 1 Art 111-1 vs Art 436-2 The person, following the announcement by the Russian President on 24 February 2022 regarding the commencement of a so-called ‘special military operation’ against Ukraine, expressed support for this decision in the presence of others. This person had repeatedly endorsed the unlawful actions of Russian military personnel.[46]  His actions were qualified under Article 111-1 , punishable by the deprivation of the right to hold certain positions or engage in certain activities for ten to 15 years. Another person, in the presence of fellow villagers, justified the actions of Russian military personnel and expressed the opinion that the Russian President acted correctly in relation to Ukraine.[47] Her actions were qualified under Article 436-2 , punishable by arrest for up to six months or up to three years in prison.[48] From the outset of the full-scale Russian invasion, a resident of Kharkiv publicly posted calls for support to the aggressor country on his social media page. In his posts, the person referred to Ukrainian Armed Forces personnel as ‘Nazis’.[49]  His actions were qualified under Article 111-1 , punishable by the deprivation of the right to hold certain positions or engage in certain activities for three to 15 years. Immediately following the invasion, the person shared a post on their Telegram channel containing glorification of the participants of the Russian aggression against Ukraine. This information became accessible to an unrestricted audience. Subsequently, she posted another piece of information on her Telegram channel in which she justified and acknowledged the legitimacy of the Russian armed aggression against Ukraine.[50] Her actions were qualified under Article 436-2 , punishable by five to eight years in prison with or without property confiscation.   4.2. Part 4 Art 111-1 vs Art 111-2   In February-May 2022, a 60-year-old man who was serving as the acting head of one of the state-owned enterprises in the Lugansk region engaged in a criminal conspiracy with the Russian occupying forces and representatives of the so-called ‘Luhansk People’s Republic’ (‘LPR’). The person voluntarily transferred material resources from the subsidiary to the Russian armed groups and the illegal armed formation of the ‘LPR’. Subsequently, he willingly assumed the head position at the farm and conducted economic activities related to mixed farming.[51]  His actions were classified under part 4 Article 111-1 , punishable by three to five years in prison with deprivation of the right to hold certain positions or engage in certain activities for ten to 15 years with confiscation of property. The head of the milk canning factory in Kupyansk established stable working and ideological ties with representatives of the RF during the occupation of the town. The person continued doing business and concluded supply contracts with the so-called ‘Military and Civilian Administration of Kupyansk District’ representatives’. The head instructed his subordinates to hand over dairy products to the occupiers. In addition, he managed to establish working relations with the Ministry of Economic Development of the RF on the dairy products supplies to the territory of the so-called ‘Donetsk People Republic’ (‘DPR’).[52]  His actions were qualified under Art 111-2 , punishable by ten to 12 years in prison with deprivation of the right to hold certain positions or engage in certain activities for ten to 15 years and with or without confiscation of property.   4.3. Part 5 Art 111-1 vs Art 111-2   After the town was captured by the Russian army and the illegal authorities began to function, the former employee of a Ukrainian bank entered into a criminal conspiracy with representatives of the Russian occupation administration. In March 2022, the occupation authorities appointed her as the head of the so-called ‘Novopskov branch of the state bank of the LPR’.[53]  Her actions were qualified under part 5 of Art 111-1 , punishable by five to ten years in prison with deprivation of the right to hold certain positions or engage in certain activities for ten to 15 years and with or without confiscation of property. The person in the temporarily occupied territory of the Kherson region voluntarily agreed to cooperate with the occupation authorities. He agreed to take up the position of bank manager.[54] His actions were qualified under Art 111-2 , punishable by ten to 12 years in prison with deprivation of the right to hold certain positions or engage in certain activities for ten to 15 years and with or without confiscation of property. In May 2022, the person voluntarily agreed to cooperate with the Russian occupation authorities and accepted the offer to take the pseudo-position of ‘head of the civil-military administration’.[55]  His actions were qualified under part 5 of Art 111-1 , punishable by five to ten years in prison with deprivation of the right to hold certain positions or engage in certain activities for ten to 15 years and with or without confiscation of property. Also, in May 2022, the person supporting the illegal actions of the occupiers agreed to act as the so-called ‘head of the village’.[56]  His actions were classified under Art 111-2 , punishable by ten to 12 years in prison with deprivation of the right to hold certain positions or engage in certain activities for ten to 15 years with or without confiscation of property   4.4. Part 6 Art 111-1 vs Art 436-2   After Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine, a student from the Kharkiv region took part in propaganda projects by Russian media. In her speeches, she said that she had consciously decided to ‘help Russian soldiers’ and ‘want to serve Russia’. In a video interview, she expressed support for the actions of the aggressor country. She called for assistance to the Russian armed forces.[57]  Her actions were classified under part 6 of Article 111-1 , punishable by ten to 12 years in prison with deprivation of the right to hold certain positions or engage in certain activities for ten to 15 years with or without confiscation of property. In May 2022, the person publicly expressed her position in support of Russia’s actions in Ukraine. Thus, the person gave an interview to the Russian TV channel Zvezda. In the interview, she said she supported the Russian army and felt safe about its arrival. Her actions were classified under part 3 of Art 436-2 , punishable by five to eight years in prison with or without confiscation of property.   4.5. Part 7 Art 111-1 vs Art 111   The person, formerly dismissed from the State Emergency Service of Ukraine, accepted the offer of cooperation from representatives of the Russian armed forces and was appointed ‘head of the fire and rescue station’.[58]  His actions were classified under part 7 of Art 111-1 , punishable by 12 to 15 years in prison with deprivation of the right to hold certain positions or engage in certain activities for ten to 15 years with or without confiscation of property The person was interviewed by Russian representatives and voluntarily took a ‘senior position’ in the so-called ‘Ministry of Emergency Situations’ in the temporarily occupied Luhansk region. In May 2022, he was appointed ‘Head of the Regional Fire and Rescue Unit of the Ministry of Emergency Situations of the LPR’.[59]  His actions were classified under part 2 of Art 111 , punishable by 15 years in prison or life imprisonment with confiscation of property. Therefore, after analysing these examples, it becomes quite challenging to pinpoint the exact principles by which the prosecution distinguishes and qualifies crimes under different articles. Most likely, it is done at the discretion of individual prosecutors since identifying significant case circumstances that would warrant different qualifications under the specified articles is difficult. This creates issues of dual classification and violates the principle of legal certainty. Furthermore, there are cases in which a person's actions were simultaneously classified under two different articles. For instance, the person agreed to an offer from representatives of the occupying administration and assumed the position of ‘assistant prosecutor’ in the ‘LPR’. Her actions were classified under both part 2 Article 111 and part 7 Article 111-1.[60]    What is also concerning is that the articles, the distinction between which is primarily at the discretion of prosecutors, prescribe very different sanctions for the commission of the same act—ranging from the deprivation of the right to hold certain positions or engage in certain activities for a term of ten to 15 years (part 1 Article 111-1) to imprisonment for a term of five to eight years with or without property confiscation (part 3 Article 436-2).   To summarise, the main difficulties of applying the article on wartime collaboration are: (a) the lack of criteria for distinguishing between the qualification of acts under Articles 111, 111-2 and 436-2 and Article 111-1, which creates problems of double qualification and violates the principle of legal certainty; (b) the disproportionate punishment for acts that can be qualified under the ‘new’ articles: in some cases, the punishment is too severe, in others, it does not fulfil the function of correction and prevention of new criminal offences.   5. Judicial Practice   In this section, we invite you to examine the status of wartime collaboration cases in the courts. As of September 2023, the Unified State Register of Court Decisions illustrates the situation, and you can find the details in Table 2.[61]  Article Total judgements 111 409 111-1 691 111-2 7 436-2 715 TOTAL 1410 Table 2. Compiled by the author based on information from the Unified State Register of Court Decisions. [62]   Approximately 51% of judgements (353) under Article 111-1 were delivered specifically under part 1, which addresses the public denial of armed aggression against Ukraine and public calls for support for the decisions of the aggressor state. Interestingly, at least one judgement under part 7 Article 111-1 involved a minor Ukrainian citizen. Judgements under all parts of Article 111-1, except parts 1 and 2, are delivered in absentia . Moreover, more than 50% of judgements in cases involving part 3 and part 5 Article 111-1 were delivered in absentia . For Article 111-2, 3 out of 7 judgements were delivered in absentia . In many cases, under Article 111-1, the accused entered into agreements to acknowledge guilt. Such agreements are present in cases involving all parts of Article 111-1. Notably, no agreements acknowledging guilt were established under Article 111-2. It is also worth mentioning that entering into such agreements, as well as the consideration of cases in absentia , precludes further appeals under Ukrainian law.   Thus, since the beginning Russian invasion, the Ukrainian judicial system has already handed down 1,410 judgements on wartime collaboration. Interestingly, under ‘new articles’, the court can impose penalties that don't involve imprisonment, such as a suspended sentence or a prohibition from holding certain positions. Individuals sentenced in this way fall under probation. In other words, they might not end up in prison but instead serve their sentence on probation, typically in their place of residence, and participate in a rehabilitation program. Currently, there are 235 wartime collaborators on probation in Ukraine.[63]   5.1. Violation of the Principle of Legal Certainty   Articles 111-1 and 111-2 contain certain formulations that can be interpreted broadly, leading to significant discretion for prosecutors applying these provisions. Among such formulations are the terms ‘material resources’ and ‘interaction with the aggressor state’ in part 4 Article 111-1, as well as ‘intentional actions aimed at assisting the aggressor state’ in Article 111-2. Additionally, the definition of ‘economic activities’ is blurred and interpreted extremely broadly and inconsistently. According to judicial practice, this category may encompass both food products and engaging in any work activity in the occupied territory. The lack of clarity in these provisions provides prosecutors with a wide range of interpretations and raises concerns about the potential misuse or abuse of these legal terms. It is essential to ensure that legal definitions are precise and specific to prevent arbitrary application and uphold legal certainty and fairness in proceedings.   According to most recent judicial practice, part 2 Article 111-1 has become a universal provision for penalising those who did not hold leadership positions in the occupational administrations but agreed to continue working in the occupied territory. However, the actual harm from such activities to the local population and the Ukrainian national security is quite questionable. For example, it may include persons who continued or agreed to work as school guards,[64] social workers,[65] or even as ‘heads of street representatives’ (a person representing the residents of a particular street in relations with occupation authorities).[66]   It is noteworthy to mention the overly broad formulation of Article 111-2, which could encompass workers in critical infrastructure facilities and medical institutions. In some cases, even employees of critical infrastructure[67] and medical institutions[68] have been sentenced under this article, despite international humanitarian law stating that they should not be held accountable as they are responsible for ensuring the population’s livelihoods in the occupied territory. Perhaps some clarifications, notes, or narrowing down the scope of individuals subject to responsibility are needed for Article 111-2.   5.2. Unclear Distinction Between Corpus Delicti    As mentioned earlier, Articles 111-1, 111-2, and 436-2 were introduced into the Ukrainian Criminal Code with a one-month difference in their enactment, without sufficient coordination and differentiation between them that may cover collaboration with an aggressor state. Additionally, these articles differ in their writing techniques, further complicating their distinction.   Article 111-2 is comprehensive and encompasses all actions aimed at supporting (abetting) an aggressor state through the implementation or endorsement of decisions and actions of the aggressor state, which can include any activity on the occupied territory. Similarly, Article 111-1 provides a list of activities considered wartime collaboration, such as publicly supporting the actions of the aggressor state, holding leadership or non-leadership positions in the occupation administrations, and implementing the education standards of the aggressor state. All these actions, among others, may fall under the definition of actions aimed at supporting (abetting) the aggressor state. Moreover, Article 111-2 also includes the voluntary collection, preparation, and/or transfer of material resources or other assets to representatives of the aggressor state, directly intersecting with part 4 Article 111-1, which establishes criminal liability for the transfer of material resources and/or conducting economic activities in collaboration with the aggressor state.   For instance, the actions of a person who, while holding the position of the head of the education department, supports the decisions and actions of the aggressor state in implementing Russian educational standards in the temporarily occupied territory, were classified under Article 111-2.[69] Although the third part of Article 111-1 outlines a separate element of the offence—actions by Ukrainian citizens aimed at implementing the education standards of the aggressor state in educational institutions. In another scenario, the actions of a person who organised the collection of funds on a bank card for subsequent transfer to be used by representatives of the Russian armed formations were qualified under Article 111-2.[70] However, such actions also fall under part 4 of Article 111-1.   The distinction between part 1 of Article 111-1 and Article 436-2 seems to be also complicated. While the formulation of part 1 of Article 111-1 explicitly includes the criterion of the public nature of denial of aggression and support for the actions of the aggressor state, under which, according to practice, all forms of spreading such statements on social media fall, these same actions are also classified within the scope of Article 436-2 in judicial practice. One of the methods proposed by the Ukrainian Supreme Court for differentiation is through the object of encroachment.[71] Specifically, actions within part 1 of Article 111-1 affect national security, while within Article 436-2, the object of the crime is peace, humanity, and international order. In this context, the concept of ‘humanity’ is broader and encompasses ‘national security’ as well. In judicial practice, drawing such distinctions proves to be quite challenging. As a result, the same actions are classified differently in some cases, falling under part 1 of Article 111-1, which entails the deprivation of the right to hold certain positions or engage in specific activities for a term ranging from ten to 15 years. In other cases, the actions are categorised under Article 436-2, where the penalties are significantly harsher, ranging from corrective labour for up to two years to imprisonment for up to five years, with or without property confiscation, or imprisonment for a term of five to eight years with property confiscation or without, specifically for public officials.   Another example of interpretation divergence lies in distinguishing between part 7 of Article 111-1 and Article 111. Particular actions fall under part 7 of Article 111-1 for persons who did not serve as law enforcement or judicial authorities’ employees before the occupation but assumed positions under occupation. However, if a person exercised corresponding powers and continued to do so under occupation, it is considered a shift to the enemy's side, consequently falling under Article 111. Some judges argue that voluntarily assuming a position in illegal law enforcement agencies should be qualified under part 7 of Article 111-1. In contrast, subsequent activities in that position should additionally be classified under Article 111.   The judicial practice has also demonstrated the complexity of distinguishing between part 1 of Article 111-1 and Article 436-2. These articles coincide in terms of denying armed aggression, with the primary distinction being the ‘level of publicity’. Article 436-2 predominantly addresses posts on social media.[72] For example, a person was sentenced to two years in prison for a post on Telegram,[73] another person was sentenced to five years in prison for reposting on Russian social media Odnoklassniki.[74] However, considering the similarity in the wording of the articles, the issue arises from the fact that part 1 of Article 111-1 is a misdemeanour, while Article 436-2 deals with a crime. This discrepancy is reflected in the penalties prescribed by these articles.   Therefore, the ambiguity in formulating Articles 111-1, 111-2, and 436-2 makes it difficult to distinguish them when qualifying certain actions. Understanding which actions fall under criminal liability according to these articles becomes challenging, contributing to inconsistent application of the law and the imposition of punishments disproportionate to the committed offences.   5.3. Custody Seems to be the Only Choice for Pre-trial Detention   The judicial practice has demonstrated that when a prosecutor requests the imposition of a preventive measure, such as pre-trial detention, the court often grants such a request without conducting a detailed examination of the risks associated with the alleged crimes. These risks are considered sufficient grounds for the imposition of such an exceptional preventive measure. In essence, the court must assess the presence and realism of these risks when determining the preventive measure. However, an analysis of court judgement on the imposition of preventive measures suggests that risk assessment is often formal. Furthermore, the accused person's residence or origin in a temporarily occupied territory significantly influences the severity of the alleged crimes. It becomes a decisive factor in choosing pre-trial detention as a preventive measure. In this context, judges often refer to the European Court of Human Rights (ECtHR) practice, citing several cases.[75] However, these references often have a formal nature. Phrases with references are repeated from decision to decision, making it challenging to assess whether the court genuinely analysed the relevant ECtHR practice or if the references serve as an attempt to showcase formal compliance with European standards without real application.   Typically, when a preventive measure, such as detention, is chosen, it is extended until the conclusion of the criminal proceedings. The use of bail as an alternative preventive measure is limited. Nevertheless, for instance, in the case of a person suspected of committing a criminal offence under part 4 of Article 111-1,[76] the court determined a preventive measure in the form of bail at 53,680 hryvnias.[77]   5.4. Lack of Exculpatory Judgements and Standards of Evidence   In wartime collaboration cases, there is a noticeable inclination towards accusatory perspectives. This is evident in the scarcity of acquittals, with only two exoneration judgements identified— one under Article 111-1[78] and the other under Article 111-2.[79] Both are grounded in the insufficiency and inadequacy of evidence gathered during pre-trial investigations. It is worth noting that in at least two cases observed by journalists, the judge handed participants a fully printed judgement text within an hour or less of deliberation in the council chamber. This suggests that the verdict may have been drafted before the judicial debates took place. Additionally, the judicial practice has revealed a remarkably low standard of evidence and the inadmissibility of certain proofs, including the consideration of evidence that does not genuinely attest to the commission of the act.[80] This raises concerns about the fairness and transparency of the judicial process, as it seems some decisions may be predetermined or influenced by factors beyond the scope of the trial itself.   Among the primary pieces of evidence utilised by prosecutors in such cases to substantiate guilt are documents from occupational administrations, publications in Russian media, and social media. Many court verdicts also reference statements or appointments to positions as evidence of guilt. However, questions arise regarding the admissibility of such evidence, considering the complexity of establishing its authenticity. Additionally, according to Law[81] any act (decision, document) issued by authorities on the temporarily occupied territory is invalid and does not create legal consequences.[82] Meanwhile, documents regarding acceptance to a position or other documents from occupying authorities are unquestionably used as proper evidence for the prosecution.   5.5. Asymmetric Between Violation and Punishment   The difficulties in distinguishing between Articles 111-1, 111-2, and 436-2, along with unclear formulations, also result in the imposition of punishments disproportionate to the established violations. Specifically, when differentiating between the elements of crimes outlined in Articles 111-1 and 111-2, a significant disparity in sanctions between these articles becomes apparent. In the cases examined above under Article 111-2, actions that also fall under parts 3 and 4 of Article 111-1 were qualified. On the one hand, part 3 of Article 111-1 provides for penalties such as corrective labour for up to two years, arrest for up to six months, or imprisonment for up to three years with the deprivation of the right to hold certain positions or engage in certain activities for a period of ten to 15 years. On the other hand, part 4 of Article 111-1 stipulates penalties in the form of a fine or imprisonment for three to five years with the deprivation of the right to hold certain positions or engage in certain activities for a period of ten to 15 years, along with property confiscation.   Article 111-2, under which actions were qualified, entails punishment in the form of imprisonment for a period ranging from ten to 12 years, with the deprivation of the right to hold certain positions or engage in certain activities for a period of ten to 15 years, and with or without property confiscation. The inconsistent application of sanctions and the disproportionate nature of penalties are also evident in cases that fall under the same section of Article 111-1. This raises concerns about the fairness and uniformity of the legal system, reflecting a need for a more consistent approach to sentencing and the application of sanctions.   In a particular case, a person who voluntarily slaughtered two sheep and personally delivered the ‘material resources’ to Russian representatives, thus ‘facilitating their occupation activities in the village’, was sentenced to one year and three months of imprisonment.[83] Meanwhile, a person who voluntarily provided ‘material resources’ to the servicemen of the Russian occupation forces, including preparing meals, washing clothes, and instructing local residents to slaughter sheep for her to cook meals for the Russian Armed Forces, was fined 17,850 hryvnias.[84] Additionally, she was deprived of the right to hold elected positions in government and local self-government for ten years, with the confiscation of all her property. In both cases, the accused parties entered into agreements acknowledging their guilt.[85]   In another case, a person who repeatedly and voluntarily provided ‘material resources’ to Russian occupation forces, such as food products and alcoholic beverages, and even cooked meals for them, was sentenced to three years of imprisonment.[86] This came with the deprivation of the right to hold positions in state authorities, state administration, local self-government, or provide public services for ten years, along with the confiscation of half of her personal property. However, another person who freely handed over ‘material resources’ to unidentified Russian Federation servicemen, specifically 20 kg of pork in two polyethylene bags, was sentenced to four years of imprisonment and the deprivation of the right to hold positions in state authorities and local self-government for 12 years.[87]   6. Final Brushstrokes   From March 2022 to September 2023, eleven draft laws have been registered in the Ukrainian Parliament to address the issues arising from the legal practice with the ‘new’ articles on wartime collaboration.[88] These legislative proposals aim to alter the jurisdiction of cases, increase the severity of punishments, expand the scope of individuals who could face criminal charges (eg foreigners), extend the rehabilitation period for criminal records, and introduce other changes. Essentially, all these draft laws seek to criminalise wartime collaboration further. However, one exception, Draft Law No 7570, aims to clarify the differentiation between Articles 111-1, 111-2 and 436-2.[89] This Draft Law appears to be most effective in the context of delineating articles. Additionally, it suggests excluding liability for publicly calling to disregard the spread of Ukraine's state sovereignty on temporarily occupied territories from Article 111-1. The Draft Law also recommends removing Article 111-2 to eliminate the multiplication of articles within the Ukrainian Criminal Code containing the same criminal elements but with different sanctions imposed on them. Streamlining the legal framework this way could create a more coherent and efficient legal system. I will not  delve into a detailed analysis of each individual document separately.[90] As of September 2023, all these draft laws are still under consideration and have not been put to a vote.   In my view, the existence of at least eleven draft laws proposing amendments to wartime collaboration legislation, coupled with the fact that none of the registered draft laws have been adopted, underscores the imperfections in the legal framework and the necessity for its revision. This also reflects a lack of unified understanding regarding the specific changes required for the effective and proper implementation of provisions concerning wartime collaboration. A comprehensive review and consensus-building process are essential to address these shortcomings and ensure a more coherent legal approach to collaboration activities.   Examining investigative and judicial practices reveals the complexity of distinguishing the qualification of actions that may fall under wartime collaboration. Despite introducing ‘new articles’ into the criminal legislation over a year and a half ago, their broad formulation and intersection of dispositions do not allow for developing a proper practice of differentiation in their application. Judicial practice confirms that there is a difference in the interpretation of the articles by different prosecutors, leading to their varied application in practice. The application of the ‘new articles’ also indicates an inconsistency in the violation and punishment, particularly in the context of differentiating actions falling under the provisions of articles 111-1, 111-2, and 436-2, whose sanctions significantly differ. Additionally, there is a varied application of sanctions for the same actions. Implementing these ‘new articles’ lacks uniformity and coherence, posing challenges in interpretation and application within the legal framework.   One of the major issues identified revolves around the broad interpretation of articles 111-1, 111-2 and 436-2. This stems from the ambiguity in their formulation during the development phase. The articles include concepts such as ‘material resources’, ‘economic activity’, and ‘interaction’, for which legislators have not set clear boundaries. These terms fall within the discretion of prosecutors, violating the principle of legal certainty. Individuals in occupied territories lack a clear understanding of permissible actions, potentially exposing them to criminal liability. This lack of clarity adds additional pressure and fear among the Ukrainian population in occupied territory. The wide discretion granted to prosecutors also poses corruption risks. The absence of a clear definition threatens reintegration processes and undermines public trust in the Ukrainian justice system. Addressing these issues is crucial to ensure a more transparent and trustworthy legal system.   The near absence of ‘not-guilty’ judgements in wartime collaboration cases and the low evidence standards lead to a lack of competition between the parties. Additionally, there is the unquestioned application of pre-trial detention as a preventive measure. Also, from the practical aspect of investigating wartime collaboration, the consideration of documents issued by occupying authorities contradicts the official Ukrainian policy of non-recognition of such documents.   It may be necessary to draft a new law amending legislation on wartime collaboration. This law would aim to clarify broad formulations and clearly delineate the elements of crimes specified in articles 111-1, 111-2, and 436-2. Specifically, a clear list of actions that would incur criminal liability should exist. These actions should encompass not only the formal execution of specific work or holding a certain position in occupational administrations but also the negative consequences of such activities for Ukrainian national security. The court should systematically assess these consequences.   The Ukrainian parliament should consider the societal danger and consequences of actions outlined in Articles 111-1, 111-2, and 436-2. It is essential to devise proportional and fair punishments for such violations. Specifically, exploring the possibility of reclassifying the least severe category of offences from the realm of criminal justice and implementing measures of lustration is worth considering. Additionally, contemplating the development of legislation regarding amnesty could be a viable option. These measures would not only bridge the gap between the societal peril of action and the corresponding punishment but also contribute to relieving the burden on the justice system. Moreover, they could facilitate the reintegration processes of Ukraine's de-occupied territories and its residents, fostering a more cohesive society.   Additionally, for an effective investigation of wartime collaboration cases, it is crucial to develop a unified strategy for investigation agencies dealing with this category of cases. Such a strategy should outline collaboration frameworks among different agencies to prevent redundant actions, clearly define distinctions between various charges, and provide interpretations of broad concepts to reduce the discretion of certain prosecutors and the inconsistency in applying the law. This strategy should also include criteria for proving voluntariness and identifying evidence that does not meet the criteria of relevance and sufficiency. In determining approaches to holding individuals accountable for cooperation with occupying authorities among Ukrainian citizens residing in temporarily occupied territories, it is essential to consider the subsequent reintegration of liberated territories. The goal is to ensure the full return of the population of these territories to the legal, informational, and cultural framework of Ukraine. This requires a thoughtful approach that considers the broader context of post-conflict reconstruction and the reestablishment of normalcy in the lives of those affected by wartime collaboration.   7. Conclusion   The analysis of Ukrainian laws regarding wartime collaboration has revealed numerous weaknesses. It is imperative to persuade Ukrainian leaders to amend the collaborationism law. The international community can play a constructive role in assisting Ukraine in reintegrating communities under Russian control.   Additionally, international stakeholders could advocate for amendments to Ukraine’s collaboration law to make it more precise and align it with international humanitarian law, which mandates that the occupying power ensures essential services. This means that individuals providing key services in healthcare, administration, or education are generally allowed to continue their professional duties, even under occupation. Until the collaborationism law is reformed, international institutions may encourage the Ukrainian government toward its reasonable application. Specifically, they can incentivise the emerging trend of applying the full force of the law only to influential criminals whose collaboration may be linked to significant harm or who coerced others into collaboration. Mass accusations of wartime collaboration may breed suspicion between liberators and the liberated and burden the Ukrainian judicial system. A clearer definition of what constitutes wartime collaboration could help those currently living under occupation make informed judgments about their options and what awaits them after liberation. This would be a crucial step towards ensuring that people still living under occupation become valuable participants in the country’s future recovery.   A rigid stance by the Ukrainian judiciary on collaboration may ultimately lead to human rights violations and the emergence of conflicts that hinder the recovery of Ukrainian communities. It is essential not to overlook the fact that a nuanced approach to wartime collaboration will be a key component of sustainable peace in Ukraine. As Ukraine navigates the complex circumstances of Russian aggression, scholars, policymakers, legal experts, and international stakeholders must engage in ongoing dialogue to refine and adapt legislative approaches. A balanced and thoughtful response is essential to address wartime collaboration while fostering reconciliation and ensuring justice without jeopardising the broader objectives of national recovery and stability. Artem Nazarko Artem Nazarko is a Doctoral Researcher at the London South Bank University School of Law and Social Sciences. Artem is a Legal Researcher at the Platform for Peace and Humanity, Slovakia. He was formerly a Consultant at Global Right Compliance, The Netherlands. Artem holds a Master’s degree (LLM) in International Law from the National University Odesa Law Academy, Ukraine. Artem is also a member of the National Ukrainian Bar Association. E-mail: nazarkoaa@onua.edu.ua & s4239455@lsbu.ac.uk . ORCID ID 0000-0002-4190-7288. The author wishes to thank Dr David Birchall and Dr Ozan Kamiloglu for their ongoing support and significant and insightful advice provided throughout my research. The author expresses gratitude to the editorial team of this journal for their valuable feedback on the draft version of this article, which contributed to its improvement. [1] See generally US Department of Defense, Law of War Manual  (2015) 1056-57; UK Ministry of Defence, The Joint Service Manual of Armed Conflict (Joint Service Publication 383, 2004) 63. [2] Gerhard Hirschfeld, ‘Collaboration in Nazi-Occupied France: Some Introductory Remarks’ in Gerhard Hirschfeld and Patrick Marsh (eds), Collaboration in France: Politics and Culture During the Nazi Occupation, 1940–1944  (Berg 1989). [3] Stathis N Kalyvas, ‘Collaboration in Comparative Perspective’ (2008) 15(2) European Review of History 109; Henrik Dethlefsen, ‘Denmark and the German Occupation: Cooperation, Negotiation or Collaboration?’ (1990) 15(1-2) Scandinavian Journal of History 198. [4] See eg, István Deák, Europe on Trial: The Story of Collaboration, Resistance, and Retribution during World War II  (Westview Press 2015) 257. [5]  Se e generally Shane Darcy, To Serve the Enemy: Informers, Collaborators, and the Laws of Armed Conflict  (Oxford University Press 2019). [6] Geneva Convention Relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War 1949 Art 17; Geneva Convention Relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War 1949 Art 31. [7] Shane Darcy, ‘Coming to Terms with Wartime Collaboration: Post-Conflict Processes & Legal Challenges’ (2019) 45(1) Brook J Int'l L 80 . [8] See Maria Fritsche, ‘Spaces of encounter: relations between the occupier and the occupied in Norway during the Second World War’ (2020) 45(3) Social History 360, 370-373. [9]   See   Preeta Nilesh, ‘Norway and World War II: Invasion, Occupation, Liberation’ (2012) 73 Proceedings of the Indian History Congress 1117. [10] See Fabian Lemmes, ‘Collaboration in wartime France, 1940–1944’ (2008) 15(2) European Review of History 157. [11] See Kim Munholland, ‘Wartime France: Remembering Vichy’ (1994) 18(3) French Historical Studies 801. [12] See Joshua D Zimmerman, ‘The Polish Underground Home Army (AK) and the Jews: What Postwar Jewish Testimonies and Wartime Documents Reveal’ (2020) 34(1) East European Politics and Societies 194. [13] See Jochen Böhler and Jacek A Młynarczyk, ‘Collaboration and Resistance in Wartime Poland (1939–1945)–A Case for Differentiated Occupation Studies’ (2018) 16(2) Journal of Modern European History 225. [14] Michael Ignatieff, ‘The Question of Collaboration’ ( Project Syndicate , 16 August 2023) < https://www.project-syndicate.org/onpoint/wartime-collaboration-remains-a-complex-question-by-michael-ignatieff-2023-07 > accessed 10 March 2024. [15] The majority of Ukrainians in the western regions opposed Soviet rule for various reasons, especially after the 18-month period of Soviet occupation in Ukraine from 1939 to 1941. The Soviet Union had forcefully occupied eastern Ukraine in the years between the two World Wars. The Soviet Union was responsible for the devastating famine known as the Holodomor in the early 1930s, resulting in the deaths of millions of Ukrainians. [16] Throughout various periods of WWII, from August 1939 to May 1945, various armed formations composed of Ukrainians were created and collaborated with Germans. These included the Ukrainian Nationalist Military Units (Bergbauern Hilfe), bataillons Nachtigall (Bataillon Ukrainische Gruppe Nachtigall) and Roland (Battalion Ukrainische Gruppe Roland), the Ukrainian Auxiliary Police (Ukrainische Schutzmannschaft), the Ukrainian Liberation Army (Ukrainische Befreiungsarmee), the 14th SS-Volunteer Division ‘Galicia’ (14. Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS [Galizische Nr 1]), and the Ukrainian National Army (Ukrainische Nationalarmee). [17] See David R Marples, S talinism in Ukraine in the 1940s (Palgrave Macmillan 1992) 64. [18] See Georgiy Kasianov, ‘Nationalist Memory Narratives and the Politics of History in Ukraine since the 1990s’ (2023) Nationalities Papers 1. [19] See Dominique Arel and Jesse Driscoll, ‘Ukraine's Unnamed War: Before the Russian Invasion of 2022’ (Cambridge University Press 2023). [20]  U nited Nations General Assembly Resolution ES‑11/1 of 2 March 2022. [21]   UNHCR, ‘Ukraine refugee situation’ ( Operational Data Portal Refugee , 2022) < https://data.unhcr.org/en/situations/ukraine > accessed 7 April 2024. [22] OHCHR, ‘Ukraine: civilian casualty update 24 September 2023’ ( OHCHR , 26 September 2023), < https://www.ohchr.org/en/news/2023/09/ukraine-civilian-casualty-update-24-september-2023 > accessed 7 April 2024. [23] Pierre Breteau, ‘War in Ukraine: Russia now controls only 16% of Ukrainian territory’ Le Monde  (Paris, 6 January 2023) < https://www.lemonde.fr/en/les-decodeurs/article/2023/01/06/war-in-ukraine-russia-now-controls-only-16-of-ukrainian-territory_6010578_8.html > accessed 7 April 2024. [24] Law of Ukraine No 2110-IX 3 March 2022; Law of Ukraine No 2108-IX 3 March 2022; Law of Ukraine No 2198-IX 14 April 2022. [25] ‘Criminal liability for collaborationism: analysis of current legislation, practice of its application, and proposals for amendments’ ( Zmina , November 2022) < https://zmina.ua/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2022/12/zvit_zmina_eng-1.pdf > accessed 7 April 2024. [26] Sian Norris, ‘“We Are on the Frontline”—a Year on from Kharkiv Oblast Being Liberated, Its Residents Tell’ ( The Ferret , 13 October 2023) < https://theferret.scot/kharkiv-oblast-liberated-its-residents-tell-stories > accessed 7 April 2024. [27] Sergei Kuznetsov, ‘Ukraine Liberates Kherson in Another Stunning Defeat for Russia’ ( Politico , 11 November 2022) < https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-liberates-kherson-army-war-defeat-russia-dnipro/ > accessed 7 April 2024. [28] Tim Tolsdorff, ‘The Question of Wartime Collaboration Is Extremely Sensitive’ ( Robert Bosch Stiftung , 26 April 2023) < https://www.bosch-stiftung.de/en/storys/question-wartime-collaboration-extremely-sensitive > accessed 7 April 2024. [29] Lily Hyde, ‘Forced to fight your own people: How Russia is weaponizing passports’ ( Politico , 1 January 2023) < https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-citizenship-war-russia-weaponize-passport-passportization-mobilization-draft/ > accessed 7 April 2024. [30] ‘Ukraine’ ( Freedom House , 2023) < https://freedomhouse.org/country/ukraine/freedom-world/2023 > accessed 7 April 2024. [31] ‘Zрадники країни’ ( Movement Chesno , 2022) < https://www.chesno.org/traitors/ > accessed 7 April 2024. [32] ‘База зрадників Херсону’ Telegram channel < https://t.me/Kherson_kolaborant > accessed 7 April 2024. [33] Igor Burdyga, ‘The problems with Ukraine’s wartime collaboration law’ ( Open Democracy , 16 August 2023) < https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/odr/ukraine-kherson-wartime-collaboration-law-problems-amendments/ > accessed 7 April 2024. [34] See James Verini, ‘Some Ukrainians Helped the Russians. Their Neighbors Sought Revenge’, The New York Times (NYC, 1 November 2023) < https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/01/magazine/ukraine-kherson-collaboration-russia.html >; Joshua Yaffa, ‘The Hunt for Russian Collaborators in Ukraine’, The New Yorker  (NYC, 30 January 2023) < https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/02/06/the-hunt-for-russian-collaborators-in-ukraine > all accessed 7 April 2024; Leonid Belkin et al, ‘Problems of Responsibility in Modern Ukraine for Collaborative Activities’ (2022) 21 Ekspert: Paradigmi Ûridičnih Nauk Ì Deržavnogo Upravlìnnâ 51. [35] Patrick Wintour, ‘NATO allies back fast-track membership for Ukraine, says Cleverly’ Guardian  (London, 21 June 2023) < https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/21/ukraine-recovery-london-conference-volodymyr-zelenskiy-eu > accessed 7 April 2024. [36] Simon Schlegel, ‘What will Ukraine do with Russian collaborators? Revenge would be a mistake’ Guardian (London, 26 June 2023) < https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jun/26/ukraine-russia-collaborators-revenge > accessed 7 April 2024. [37] Namely: the Draft Law of Ukraine No 2549 of 06 December 2019, the Draft Law of Ukraine No 5143 of 24 February 2021, the Draft Law of Ukraine No 5135 of 2 March 2021. [38] Criminal Code of Ukraine 2001 A rt 111 ‘High treason’ . [39] Law of Ukraine No 2108-IX 3 March 2022. [40] ‘Criminal Liability for Collaborationism: Analysis of current legislation, practice of its application, and proposals for amendments’ Analytical Note (2022) < https://zmina.ua/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2022/12/zvit_zmina_eng-1.pdf > accessed 7 April 2024. [41]   Law of Ukraine No 2110-IX 3 March 2022. [42] Law of Ukraine No 2198-IX 14 April 2022. [43] Criminal Code of Ukraine 2001 Art 111-1, 111-2, and 436-2 Unofficial translation of Articles available at < https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4782115 > accessed 7 April 2024. [44] Criminal Procedure Code of Ukraine Art 216. [45]   Office of the Prosecutor General of Ukraine, ‘On registered criminal offences and the results of their pre-trial investigation’ < https://gp.gov.ua/ua/posts/pro-zareyestrovani-kriminalni-pravoporushennya-ta-rezultati-yih-dosudovogo-rozsliduvannya-2 > accessed 7 April 2024. [46] Sumy region Prosecutor’s Office (26 April 2022) < https://sumy.gp.gov.ua/ua/news.html?_m=publications&_t=rec&id=312758&fp=180 > accessed 7 April 2024. [47]   Sumy region Prosecutor’s Office (3 June 2022) < https://sumy.gp.gov.ua/ua/news.html?_m=publications&_t=rec&id=314326&fp=130 > accessed 7 April 2024. [48]   Later, this person was sentenced to six months of arrest according to information from the Sumy region Prosecutor’s Office (29 June 2022) < https://sumy.gp.gov.ua/ua/news.html?_m=publications&_t=rec&id=315472&fp=100 > accessed 7 April 2024. [49] Kharkiv region Prosecutor’s Office (22 August 2022) < https://khar.gp.gov.ua/ua/news.html?_m=publications&_t=rec&id=318376&fp=91 > accessed 7 April 2024. [50]  Kharkiv region Prosecutor’s Office  ( 13 June 2022) < https://chrg.gp.gov.ua/ua/news.html?_m=publications&_t=rec&id=314664&fp=80 >  accessed 7 April 2024. [51]  Luhanks region Prosecutor’s Office  ( 3 November 2022) < https://lug.gp.gov.ua/ua/news.html?_m=publications&_t=rec&id=322364 >  accessed 7 April 2024. [52]  Kharkiv region Prosecutor’s Office  ( 27 October 2022 ) < https://khar.gp.gov.ua/ua/news.html?_m=publications&_t=rec&id=321990&fp=30 >  accessed 7 April 2024. [53]  Luhanks region Prosecutor’s Office  ( 22 August 2022 ) < https://lug.gp.gov.ua/ua/news.html?_m=publications&_t=rec&id=318531&fp=30 >  accessed 7 April 2024. [54]  Kherson region Prosecutor’s Office  ( 7 September 2022) < https://kherson.gp.gov.ua/ua/news.html?_m=publications&_t=rec&id=319339 >  accessed 7 April 2024. [55]  Zaporizhia region Prosecutor’s Office (31  May 2022 ) < https://zap.gp.gov.ua/ua/news.html?_m=publications&_t=rec&id=314102&fp=130 >  accessed 7 April 2024. [56]  Kherson region Prosecutor’s Office  ( 25 October 2022) < https://kherson.gp.gov.ua/ua/news.html?_m=publications&_t=rec&id=321876&fp=10 >  accessed 7 April 2024. [57] Luhanks region Prosecutor’s Office (24 October 2022) < https://lug.gp.gov.ua/ua/news.html?_m=publications&_t=rec&id=321772&fp=20 > accessed 7 April 2024. [58] Zaporizhia region Prosecutor’s Office (3 August 2022) < https://zap.gp.gov.ua/ua/news.html?_m=publications&_t=rec&id=317287&fp=60 > accessed 7 April 2024. [59] Luhanks region Prosecutor’s Office (15 September 2022) < https://lug.gp.gov.ua/ua/news.html?_m=publications&_t=rec&id=319784&fp=60 > accessed 7 April 2024. [60]   Luhanks region Prosecutor’s Office. 21 October 2022. < https://lug.gp.gov.ua/ua/news.html?_m=publications&_t=rec&id=321681&fp=20 > accessed 7 April 2024. [61] Table 2 includes only judgments that are publicly available. [62] State Judicial Administration of Ukraine, < https://dsa.court.gov.ua/dsa/ > accessed 7 April 2024. [63] ‘235 засуджених колаборантів в Україні перебувають на пробації’ ( Suspilne , 5 April 2023) < https://suspilne.media/436287-235-zasudzenih-kolaborantiv-v-ukraini-perebuvaut-na-probacii-direktor-centru-probacii/ > accessed 7 April 2024. [64] Judgement in case No 485/480/23 [26 June 2023] < https://reyestr.court.gov.ua/Review/111767016 > accessed 7 April 2024. [65]   Judgement  in case No 766/4291/23 [28 August 2023] < https://reyestr.court.gov.ua/Review/113289416 >  accessed 7 April 2024. [66] Judgement in case No 202/3884/23 [15 August 2023] < https://reyestr.court.gov.ua/Review/112856417 > accessed 7 April 2024. [67] Judgement in case No 574/369/22 [21 December 2022] < https://reyestr.court.gov.ua/Review/107991214 > accessed 7 April 2024. [68] Judgement in case No 953/7265/22 [19 December 2022] < https://reyestr.court.gov.ua/Review/107934917 > accessed 7 April 2024. [69] Judgement in case No 337/414/23 [30 May2023] < https://reyestr.court.gov.ua/Review/111172842 > accessed 7 April 2024. [70] Judgement in case No 496/350/23 [25 May 2023] < https://reyestr.court.gov.ua/Review/111089967 > accessed 7 April 2024. [71] ‘How to distinguish between collaboration and related criminal offences' ( Supreme Court of Ukraine , 26 July 2022) < https://supreme.court.gov.ua/supreme/pres-center/news/1299973/ > accessed 7 April 2024. [72] In total, out of 715 judgements under Article 436-2, 559 judgements pertained to posts/shares/likes on social media platforms. Specifically, there were 425 cases on Odnoklassniki, 36 on VKontakte, 33 on Facebook, 42 on Telegram, 11 on Viber, 6 on YouTube, 3 on WhatsApp, and 3 on Instagram. For more see Mykola Komarovskyi and Denys Volokha‘Prison for ‘likes’ in the social networks? How people are punished in Ukraine for justifying Russian aggression’ ( Human Rights in Ukraine , 30 October 2023) < https://khpg.org/1608812978 > accessed 7 April 2024. [73] Judgement in case No 749/274/23 [26 September 2023] < https://reyestr.court.gov.ua/Review/113724365 > accessed 7 April 2024. [74] Judgement in case No 607/13194/22 [19 July 2023] < https://reyestr.court.gov.ua/Review/112330287 > accessed 7 April 2024. [75] Such as Fox, Campbell and Hartley v The United Kingdom  [30 August 1990] Appl No 12244/86; 12245/86; 12383/86; Murray v The United Kingdom  [28 October 1994] Appl No 22384/93; Nechiporuk and Yonkalo v Ukraine  [21 April 2011] Appl No 42310/04; Mirosław Garlicki v. Poland  [14 June 2011] Appl No 36921/07. [76] Decision in case No 646/4400/23 [06 September 2023] < https://reyestr.court.gov.ua/Review/113278894 > accessed 7 April 2024. [77] Approximately 1,400 US dollars. [78] Judgement in case No 279/1883/22 [10 February 2023] < https://reyestr.court.gov.ua/ Review/108894798> accessed 7 April 2024. [79] Judgement in case No 529/1660/22 [1 September 2023] < https://reyestr.court.gov.ua/ Review/113253801> accessed 7 April 2024. [80] Such as witness statements based on third-party accounts. [81] Part 3 Article 9 of the Law of Ukraine No 1207-VII of 15 April 2014 ‘On Ensuring the Rights and Freedoms of Citizens and the Legal Regime on Temporarily Occupied Territory of Ukraine’. [82]  Except for documents confirming birth, death, or marriage registration (dissolution) on the temporarily occupied territory. [83]   Judgement  in case No 588/713/22 [18 August 2022] < https://reyestr.court.gov.ua/ Review/105808995 > accessed 7 April 2024. [84]  Approximately 450 US dollars. [85] Judgement in case No 588/672/22 [6 September 2022] < https://reyestr.court.gov.ua/ Review/106096380> accessed 7 April 2024. [86] Judgement in case No 545/5177/22 [10 November 2022] < https://reyestr.court.gov.ua/ Review/107246755> accessed 7 April 2024. [87] Judgement in case No 577/3465/22 [15 November 2022] < https://reyestr.court.gov.ua/ Review/107375149> accessed 7 April 2024. [88] Namely: Draft Laws No 7223 [28 March 2022]; No. 7279 [12 April 2022]; No 7329 [29 April 2022]; No 7570 [20 July 2022]; No 7646 [08 August 2022]; No 7647 [08 August 2022]; No 8077 [26 September 2022]; No 8301 [23 December 2022]; No 8301-1 [05 January 2023]; No 8301-2 [09 January 2023]; No 10136 [09 October 2023]. [89]  Draft Law No 7570 [20 July 2022 ]. [90]  For detailed analysis see ‘Collaborationism and abetting the aggressor state: practice of legislative application and prospects for improvement’ Analytical report (Zmina, 2023)   < https://zmina.ua/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/10/colaboration_web_ukr-1.pdf >  accessed 7 April 2024.

My Story   Ten years old and wishing I was dead. Sitting on my bed, staring at my hand—wondering whether I was invisible or not. I never want another child to feel invisible, worthless, and so terrorised that they can’t swallow. So filled with fear that their very breath feels choked and smothered. Let me take you on a journey back 50 years, to my childhood.   My mum had run away from her Mafia boyfriend, a Greek man who was already married. Upon hearing my mum was pregnant, he took out a gun and put it to her stomach, saying: ‘Get rid of the baby or I will kill you both’. There was no fairy-tale ending, as my mum had hoped, of him leaving his wife, marriage, and having a baby together. There was only the stark reality of running in fear—homeless, with no money and no work. My mum ended up living in a homeless shelter in the UK, traumatised and addicted to alcohol. I was born two months early. As my mum couldn’t look after me, I went to live with an aunt. In the meantime, my mum met a smooth-talking man in a pub who groomed her, said he loved her and asked her to marry him. She did marry him, and when I was two she took me back and I lived with them.   My stepdad was evil; he was an alcoholic and a psychopath. He had severe mental illness and hated me with every fibre of his being. He was obsessively jealous and saw me as a part of the man who my mum first loved. Life as a child was hell on earth. My stepdad was drunk and aggressive daily and beat my mum most weeks. I saw her kicked, punched, stabbed, screamed at, and constantly verbally and emotionally abused. My stepdad would chase her down our street with a knife and punch her in front of the neighbours; yet not one person stepped in to help. The attitude was to turn a blind eye and not interfere with the business of others.   One night I witnessed my mum being kicked in the stomach and strangled and I watched in fear as an ambulance took her unconscious, battered body to hospital. The neighbours had phoned the police when they heard the screams—the first time the neighbours had actually helped. My stepdad was arrested, but the next morning he got let off and came home. My stepdad told me my mum was dead, and when I started to cry, he took out a knife and said he would cut me in pieces and put me in the freezer. Three days later my mum walked in the door, bruised and with a hoarse voice. I ran to her immediately—all I wanted was to be hugged and comforted. I had just endured three days of hell thinking she was dead. Instead she pushed me away and said, ‘We don’t talk about it’.   My stepdad was in a gang of men, a gang that included both a doctor and a policeman. They would come to the house and buy me with money or sometimes give my stepdad a bottle of whiskey. I cannot look at a bottle of whiskey without being triggered by the trauma of what happened to me. I often had the thought: ‘I am only worth the value of a bottle of whiskey’. The gang would abuse and rape me. Sometimes I would be taken in a car to places where other men and children were located and be abused there, but it is all a blur for me now—they gave me meds to keep me quiet.   Many times as a child I would end up in the hospital for different injuries. At the age of 13, I was admitted for a forced abortion. I was terrified of both the hospitals and the doctors, and throughout the visits my stepdad was with me, glaring me into silence. He and the gang would often tell me they would kill me if I ever spoke about things or ever told anyone. So how could I speak up and ask for help? They told me I was stupid and that no one would ever listen to me. My voice was stolen from me, and I lived in a lonely, invisible, silent world. Not once do I remember a doctor or nurse at the hospital asking me if I was okay, or if I was safe. I was a traumatised and underfed child, small for my age, with constant injuries and yet no one spotted red flags for abuse.   Many hours and days I was locked in a small, under the stairs cupboard as punishment and told that it was my coffin and that I would never come out. It was pitch black, dusty, and hard to breathe. I would go to my imagination and imagine beautiful scenery. I would often imagine sheep, a shepherd, and the sunlight from the words of Psalm 23, which I used to sing about while in a church choir. These pictures gave me hope and took me out of this dark and traumatic situation.   At school the same thing happened, not one teacher ever saw my suffering or my trauma (or they didn’t want to see?). I might as well have been invisible. I walked three miles to school every day through wind and rain. I never brought a packed lunch as I never got one given to me and sometimes had not eaten all day, even at home. Yet the teachers punished me for ‘forgetting my lunch’ time and time again and would say I was stupid and would end up in the gutter. The teachers never questioned my many absences due to hospital visits, or asked why I had a plaster cast on my arm for the second time or why I had bruises again or why I was falling asleep in the class (as I had been awake late with men abusing me in my room and then could not sleep because of the pain in my stomach and body).   When I was thirteen my mum ran away to live with another man, and I didn’t find her until I was fifteen. She was scared to tell me where she was as my stepdad would have killed her. At home my stepdad became more aggressive and would tell me daily that I was worthless and should not have been born. One birthday I said that I wanted a camera. I always saw things as pictures and compositions and longed to capture the things that I saw through photos. My stepdad laughed and said I would be too stupid to understand how to use a camera—so I never got one.   When I was fifteen, I was depressed and anxious and could not cope anymore. I was addicted to alcohol as I would drink alcohol that was at my house just to feel calm and be able to cope. I ended up running away one evening and found myself standing on the edge of a train track where fast trains would go past London. I stood in the dark and a train was speeding towards me. I was just about to jump when I heard a clear voice inside of me saying; ‘don’t jump, you have a future, and in that future, you will see people lost in the dark invisible to others, you will see them and help them’. I did not jump. At that moment I had never felt so lonely.   I ended up taking a train to London and walked about till late at night. I found myself near Waterloo station and met a group of homeless people who called me and asked why a young girl was walking about so late at night. I was fifteen years old but looked about twelve. I will never forget the kindness of this group of people, people who saw me and asked me if I was ok. People often judge the homeless as being dangerous, yet I found them to be kind and a safe place for me. It was inside houses on normal streets that most danger lurked!   I stayed a few weeks with them, and they shared food and blankets and alcohol. When I got drunk, my trauma came flying to the surface and I would be scared and aggressive and fight and damage things. One evening someone called the police. Seeing a big policeman looming over me scared me and I kicked him. I was arrested and put in a cell overnight. I threw up half the night from the alcohol and the other half of the night felt happy. I was inside, warm, and dry. The next morning the policeman threw me out onto the street and threw my shoes out the door at me, one hitting my head. I remember begging him to re-arrest me and put me in prison. He laughed at me and said I was not worth the time and I should go.   Life was not easy and getting to the place I am now in after experiencing many bad things has been hard. I got off the streets and am now married to an amazing man who helped restore my faith in men. I have two awesome children who are both married, and next year I will become a grandma. Life actually feels good now.   I spent three years in trauma therapy with a trauma psychologist who was excellent at his job. He helped me understand why people do such evil things and he helped me understand my own broken emotions. He encouraged me to take up photography as a way to express my hidden emotions as I found it hard to express them after years of being scared to even cry. Photography was the key to unlocking my feelings and thoughts. I became a photographer and won a lot of awards and had many publications in books and magazines which was amazing. It only takes one person to encourage another to unlock talent and potential.   I am now a member of the International Survivors of Trafficking Advisory Council (ISTAC) from the Organisation for Security in Europe (OSCE)’s Office for Democratic Institutions and Human Rights (ODIHR). At ISTAC, we advise governments from 57 states and work on policies and speak at events. It has given me back my voice in a unique and powerful way.   I am an international speaker and author and work as a consultant for the World Health Organisation and United Nations and for the Modern Slavery and Human Rights Policy and Evidence Centre. I am now setting up a survivors committee in collaboration with the organisation Hope for Justice to promote survivor inclusion. I have just begun working on a project in Romania with an amazing organisation called eLiberare, writing and implementing training on trafficking awareness, identifying potential cases, and instructions for health care workers to follow. I am setting up programming in collaboration with the World Health Organisation in Cyprus, Italy, and Greece. However, on the part of the United Kingdom and many other countries there is a lack of funding being given to modern slavery and human trafficking (MSHT) projects and work. Things need to change in the UK and globally if we want to see the fight against modern slavery and human trafficking improve.   Serious Concerns and Areas that Need Improvement   I have serious concerns with how victims of trafficking and slavery are being identified. Less than 0.5% of victims are being identified and this is shocking. Things need to change and the alarm needs to be sounded. I want to inspire change by making the invisible visible. However, we can only do this together by finding the weaknesses and strengthening them. There are a few major areas, in my opinion and from my experience, that could be vastly improved and would lead to more effective identification of victims. Given the current lack of knowledge, lack of trauma-informed methods of working and collaboration and sometimes sheer incompetence, victims are being missed, falling through the cracks, or being re-trafficked. We need to connect the dots by working together with governments, NGOs, first responders and survivor leaders.   1)     Ethical Survivor Inclusion   One effective way to increase identification is to listen to the voice of survivors and work with them. Not in a tokenistic or a tick the box exercise way like is the fashion nowadays, but to include survivors’ voices in all aspects of anti-trafficking work, in a multidisciplinary and in a survivor-centred way as the survivor knows the mind and methods of traffickers and can share this knowledge and expertise. We should be aware that not all survivors want to be asked or want to work in anti-trafficking but those that do and are a good fit should have opportunities for good positions in anti-trafficking organisations and work alongside policy makers and be the policy makers themselves.   A survivor leader is a survivor of trafficking or slavery who has decided to stand up and be a powerful voice in the anti-trafficking movement and use their unique and valuable insights. They should have a voice and a seat at every table at every level. I know many survivor leaders who are doctors, lawyers, authors, or consultants and have degrees and expertise, so their voices should be heard and used.   I would like to see national survivors of trafficking councils set up in every country advising governments, stakeholders, NGOs, and first responders. These councils could be dot joiners, bridges closing the gaps where victims are falling in. Survivors should also be paid in an ethical way as now they are often exploited to share their story for free or for an insulting gift voucher, to a room full of strangers to make money for the charities and organisations and feel used and tired and vouchers don’t pay their cost of living.   2)     First Responders and NRM Implementation   I became a first responder with the Salvation Army and Home Office implementing National Referral Mechanisms (NRMs). An NRM is a framework for identifying victims of trafficking and slavery, making sure they get the help and support they need. Once completed by a first responder, an NRM is submitted to the Home Office and a decision is made on whether or not that person is a victim. I worked in this role this for two years and was so disheartened and shocked at the way NRMs were being implemented. The training I got was very basic. It was half a day of learning statistics regarding trafficking and info about the countries it happened in. We also completed an hour of role-play interviewing, but this was more designed to teach how to fill out a form. Learning numbers does not motivate or teach!   I was never given trauma-informed training or trauma-informed interview skills. I was never told there about the NRM handbook[1] or the Trauma-Informed Code of Conduct (TICC).[2] These are both excellent tools and guides for the proper, trauma-informed way to identify, report and undertake an NRM. When the NRM is done properly it is an excellent identification tool and it should be used in every country in the world. An NRM report should not even be done without the use of the NRM handbook, which is written by survivors of trafficking from ISTAC together with experts such as Tatiana Kolykarenko and Rachel Witkin.   In my work as a first responder, I would first receive contact details of a potential victim of modern slavery or human trafficking. They could be in a safe place, in a prison or even at a police station as they had just been rescued. I had one hour to interview them and write an account of their story onto a form. Sometimes there were other people in the room—an interpreter, maybe a police man or prison guard—all strangers to the potential victim. Many times the potential victim was too traumatised to speak or had only fragmented memories of events.   It is almost impossible for a victim who is scared, traumatised, and feeling ashamed and overwhelmed to be able to tell their traumatic story under the pressure of time, stress and in a room full of people. I observed other first responders act with impatience, lack of trauma-informed knowledge and frustration. This led to victims closing up and the referral form being filled out with the words ‘not collaborating’, which in turn led to the Home Office rejecting the referral. The victim would not receive help and end up being lost in the system. Many of them truly were victims of modern slavery or human trafficking and would end up being re-trafficked or having to stay in prison where they did not belong.   Imagine now as you are reading this, that you are in a room full of strangers and you have to tell, under pressure in the next hour: every horrible and traumatic thing that has ever happened to you, your deepest secrets, things which you are ashamed that you have done, or even what you recently did in bed with your partner. Could you easily do this on command or would you feel blocked, embarrassed, and awkward? I am guessing you would not be able to do this. This is what we are asking of people who are traumatised and scared. It is not trauma-informed to treat people in this manner. First responders are not receiving proper training in trauma-informed interviewing to understand how trauma works on the brain, for example only remembering things in a fragmented way or being triggered at the mention of it. These are all influences which stop a person being able to tell their story in a room full of strangers.   Empathy and compassion are also needed. Can you imagine your daughter, son, mum, or friend being treated in this way after they have experienced such horrific trauma? It is imperative that first responders receive proper trauma-informed and survivor-centric training. Installing a council of survivor leaders to advise and give this training would be, in my eyes, the way forward to better identification of victims.   3)     Mandatory Training for Healthcare Workers and Medical Students   90% of victims of modern slavery and human trafficking will end up in a health care setting, and only about 10% of doctors and health care workers would be able to identify the red flags and the proper steps to take. There needs to be drastic change in order to identify and save victims of trafficking. Governments need to make training of trafficking awareness, identification and next steps mandatory in every medical school and hospital and for every health care worker. Only then will we see a change in how many victims are successfully identified and helped.   Last year in Wales, I spent a week with 2nd year medical students at Cardiff Hospital. I gave the training with Alison Fiander, a gynaecology professor. We started the training off by asking the students what they knew about MSHT. The students knew absolutely nothing, to my shock and surprise. They did not so much as realise they would treat patients who were victims of modern slavery and human trafficking in the hospital when they were qualified as doctors. They all thought slavery and trafficking happened in other countries and not in the United Kingdom. They told us that if they realised a patient was a victim of modern slavery and human trafficking, they would not know what to do. In fact, they had never heard of the National Referral Mechanism and therefore would not know how to report even if they did realise.   The government needs to step up and give funding for mandatory modern slavery and human trafficking training in health care settings. It is not rocket science that if 90% of victims of MSHT end up at some point in a health care setting, and health care workers do not know how to identify victims and have not had any training, then victims will not be identified—and identification is one of the major factors in the fight against MSHT.   4)     Mandatory Lessons and Training in Schools for Children and Teachers   Schools should give awareness training on MSHT to its pupils and teachers to educate, equip and empower. County-lines drugs, sexual exploitation, grooming, and sextortion are alarmingly growing crimes and targeting our young people: awareness, protection, and prevention are paramount. If we educate and protect our children now, then going forward identification of victims will be much faster and more effective and more preventable. Our children will be more aware of the dangers and be able to speak up for themselves and on behalf of their peers. The teachers will also have a better insight into what is happening and be able to identify and act faster. Nothing has changed in the last 50 years! Now is the time for a paradigm shift.   When I was a victim of child sexual exploitation and trafficking, I ended up in the hospital many times with many injuries. I was traumatised, yet not one doctor or nurse asked me if I was ok or even noticed me. I felt invisible. No one identified me as a victim. Teachers did not identify me as a victim and neither did the police on the streets when I was a homeless 15-year-old. This was a terrible missed opportunity and would have saved me years of torture, abuse, and terror. I have spoken to many survivors and victims from many different countries over the last few years, and most of them tell me about hospital visits where they also felt invisible, and no one identified them. I was invisible in a hospital 50 years ago and victims are telling me that even the last few years they have had the same experiences I did. Nothing much has changed in the last 50 years for MSHT victims in healthcare settings. We need to change this now .   Call to Action   It is time to take action, fight for better funding, demand mandatory training in healthcare settings, medical schools, and schools. We need trauma-informed training for first responders and to have survivor leaders as equals at every table at every level; advising, speaking, training and writing policies and guiding policymakers. We need more collaboration, to set up national survivor councils and networks, and to use the National Referral Mechanism to its full potential using the NRM handbook and TICC guide. It is unacceptable to only identify 0.4 % of victims globally and not change the way we work. The system is obviously not working now, so it is time for change, and we are the change we want and need.   I challenge you to step out and step up and break the cycle of apathy and attitude that someone else will do it. Let us do this together or else the next 50 years will be the same! We need to inspire others to take action. We can be the changemakers.   Part III—Photos   The following is a collection of photography taken and curated by Jane Lasonder. This collection depicts beautiful moments as seen by Jane and illustrates the world through her eyes. 1) MARRIAGE IS A MARATHON RACE Description: Wedding photo of runners on a track. This was a real wedding photo I took of a couple who were runners. The man was a professional runner. I wanted to show marriage as a marathon that needs to be worked at to win. This photo won me the title of Sports Photographer of Overijssel, a county in the Netherlands.  2) MAKE A DIFFERENCE  Description: Trumpet player in the dark.  I took this photo at a concert. This trumpet player was on the edge of the stage in the dark. All eyes were on the singer and band in the middle of the stage. I wanted to show that what we do when no one sees can still bring hope and make a difference. 3) GRACE AND STRENGTH Description: Football player Feyenoord vs Malaga. I took this and loved the grace and strength combined of the player. He almost looked like a ballet dancer. 4) COLD LONELINESS Description: Scene of frost in Zwolle, the Netherlands This took place in Zwolle, where I used to live. It was freezing cold, and most people were inside missing the beauty of this frosty scene. It also made me feel lonely, as it was cold and empty. 5) INNOCENCE Description: Children playing on a beach.   These kids were playing, not a care in the world yet there had just been a sea rescue and the emergency helicopter was flying above their heads. I wanted to show the contrast between the innocence of children playing and the dramas of daily life going on around. 6) GOSSIP TIME Description: Geese in frost. The geese were honking at each other, and one walked off like they were having a fight. 7) LOVE Description: Family photo. My most treasured thing ever—my family. My husband Rob, son Jesse, daughter Hannah and our dog. The love for them wins everything. It is why I wake up every day. This was taken in Zwolle, the Netherlands. 8) PEACE Description: Arab and Jewish man shaking hands in the desert. I was with my family driving from Jerusalem to the Dead Sea on holiday and suddenly saw the strangest sight ever! in the middle of the desert an Arab man with his camel shaking hands with a Jewish man. 9) DESPAIR Description: Victim of trafficking sitting near car park stairs I met this traumatised woman living outside on her mattress, on a pile of garbage underneath some car park stairs. She was a victim of human trafficking. She wanted me to take this photo to show the world the face of trafficking. After I took it, I and another woman from an anti-slavery organisation took her to a shelter for food, clothes, and water, and they tried to help her. Sadly, she died a few months later. 10) UNITY Description: Youth concert. This was a concert I took photos for on EO Youth Day, where 20,000 youth in the Netherlands were having a good time together. I call it ‘Unity’, as they were from different cultures and backgrounds yet came together as one. 11) LIGHT Description: Children playing with light. I was taking pictures at a Christmas concert. On the side in a dark place away from the stage I saw two children enjoying the light. I loved the contrast of light and dark. 12) JOY Description: Bedouin child at side of road. Driving from Jerusalem to the Dead Sea, I spotted this Bedouin child at the side of the road. We stopped and gave her some sweets and water and she was so happy. 13) PERSEVERANCE Description: Basketball players scoring a goal. This photo tells me never to give up going for the goal, no matter how hard it is. 14) PRECIOUS MEMORIES Description: Ice skating in the winter. I took this in Zwolle, the Netherlands on a wintery icy day and the rivers and ponds had frozen and families were skating together. I took my kids, and we made memories. Time a family spends together making memories is precious. 15) FRIENDSHIP Description: Dog and bird together. My little dog is in my garden making friends with a little bird. 16) HOPE Description: Group of runners during sunrise. The members of the group of friends running this marathon each raised 10000 Euros for an organisation called Compassion. The money was given to a village in Indonesia, Sumba, to help the children go to school and have food and clothes. In this village, children were being sold into the sex industry—the money from this marathon would stop children being sold by their parents in poverty. The runners ended the marathon as the sun rose to show light coming out of the darkness and hope. Jane Lasonder Jane Lasonder is an international speaker and author. She is also a survivor of child trafficking, who wants to be a powerful voice for those without a voice. Jane is a member of the International Survivors of Trafficking Advisory Council of OSCE/ODIHR, and of the Interparliamentary Taskforce on Human Trafficking. She has written an autobiography titled Jane , a book about awareness around human trafficking titled Red Alert , translated into three languages, and is now writing a third book, a guide for health care workers who come into contact with victims of trafficking. [1] National Referral Mechanisms – Joining Efforts to Protect the Rights of Trafficked Persons: A Practical Handbook  (Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe 2022). [2] Rachel Witkin and Katy Robjant, ‘The Trauma-Informed Code of Conduct’ (Helen Bamber Foundation) < https://www.helenbamber.org/sites/default/files/2022-01/HBF%20Trauma%20Informed%20Code%20of%20Conduct%202nd%20Edition.pdf > accessed 24 December 2023.

Jessa Crisp is a licensed professional counsellor, public speaker, and anti-trafficking activist. A victim of sex trafficking as a child, Jessa is now working on a PhD in Counsellor Education and Supervision. She is the former CEO of Bridge Hope, an anti-trafficking non-profit within the Denver-metro area and has worked with hundreds of individuals who’ve experienced trauma, depression, grief, and anxiety. CJLPA : Welcome, Jessa. I would like to begin by thanking you for taking the time to share your story as a heroic and courageous survivor of human trafficking. I want to start the interview by asking you to tell us about your childhood and how you first became a victim of sex trafficking.   Jessa Crisp : I was born into a family that I use the word evil to describe. They perpetrated a lot, my childhood had a lot of sexual abuse connected to it. I have seen images of my child pornography, for which technically the term is child sexual abuse material, from when I was a really small child, I would say a toddler. So I would have to assume that my trafficking started when I was very young, because, at least in the US, the federal definition of child sexual abuse material is human trafficking. And that is a huge part of my early childhood experiences and setting the stage for other people to purchase me. I experienced a lot of extreme abuse and traumas. I was not allowed to go to school as a child. When I was 17, I was taken to a hotel in Indianapolis where I was labour trafficked during the day and sex trafficked at night. That was a huge part of what I knew as my ‘normal’. I did not know anything else, just those extreme abuses. That truly lays the foundation for the person that I am today, where my passions exist, how I see myself, but also just how I see humanity. I have experienced the very worst of humanity, I have experienced that gross indignity of what humans have the ability to do. But on the other hand, I have also experienced so much joy and beauty, so much healing through humanity as well. So for me, holding that disparity between such stark experiences has really given me this desire to go, ‘how can I be able to be that kindness, that verse of good in the lives of others, but also create change around the globe, and how human trafficking is seen and engaged with?’   CJLPA : Thank you for sharing this difficult past. You were so young when you were subjected to these heinous crimes. And the people you would trust the most, the people that were meant to protect you, your parents, were the ones that subjected you to these unforgivable crimes. At such a young age, did you know what was happening?   JC : For me it was just such a normal part of how I saw life, all I knew was people using and abusing me. My body hurt so, yes, I knew that something was not right. I remember looking out my window at an elementary school just beyond my backyard and seeing kids play in the playground and seeing kids walk to school with lunches. I remember just being so curious about that mystery, the mystery that lay beyond the confines of my own realities. I remember having those big existential questions as a child, but yet it was also so normal that I did not know how else to question it. So I always wanted to figure out what it would look like for me to have a day at that school. What would that be like? But I also did not know anything else. And it was not until years later—I am still in this process of realizing how abnormal my childhood was, and how all of that abnormality has continued to impact my life. I am still on that journey, trying to conceptualize what that means and what that looks like. But that was all I knew. And so it was my normal.   CJLPA : Were there any bystanders to this abuse, people around you who knew or suspected something was wrong, but kept their eyes closed? For instance, the fact that you were not in school—were there questions posed by neighbours or social services?   JC : I do not recall any neighbours posing questions, although I do remember one time trying to get help. My brother and I ended up crawling onto the roof of our house. We lived in a suburban neighbourhood, and I remember crawling onto the roof of that house and really hoping that a neighbour would see and that a neighbour would be able to help us. Instead, we got into extreme trouble from that, because a neighbour did see, but the question was ‘why are your kids on the roof?’ It was not ‘what is going on? What is deeper? Why aren’t you in school?’ That kind of thing. My family was very religious and we went to a religious community, a church. Since my escape and since I have entered into this new life, I have actually have had people from that church reach out to me and just acknowledge that they knew something was not right, something was wrong. And yet, they didn’t know what it was. They have apologized. It has actually been super healing to be able to receive that acknowledgement. To receive the gift of people going, ‘I am so sorry’. I have never had any of my exploiters or buyers apologise for what they’ve done. Yet, there was such a gift that took place when these individuals [from the church] acknowledge that they knew something was not right. That in their gut, they just did not know what to do, and that they are really sorry but also really proud of where I ended up and what I am doing today.   CJLPA : Reflecting back in your story, can you think you can think of any signs that they should have picked up on? Or were you completely isolated from your community?   JC : I was very isolated, and I think isolation in and of itself could have been a sign. I think also my inability to be alone, or to go places alone, could have been a sign as well. I think the ways that I dressed, the fact that I was wearing my mother’s maternity clothes as a teenager would have been a sign as well. I think the fact that I had no education, the fact that I was so disconnected from society and reality could have been a sign as well. And yet I also hold so much compassion, because even though I can look back retrospectively and go, ‘those are those are signs’, or at least in my experience, those are definitely elements that should have given red flags that this is not right, I think I cannot hold that against them. Because back when I was a child, nobody was talking about child sexual exploitation and child trafficking. So the fact that nobody was talking about it back then means that these individuals in my life, who saw that something was wrong, had nothing by which to conceptualise a framework by which to even put together those things that they were seeing. And I think that is the good element of how we have progressed within the anti-trafficking movement and within the human rights movement. It is being able to now say, ‘these are signs and these are not normal’, and provide options and the ability to say ‘this is what we can do about this’.   CJLPA : And in your childhood, did you ever attempt to reach out for help growing up to anyone?   JC : I mentioned the roof incident already. Another thing that my siblings and I did, we allowed their grass to grow longer in the backyard and we lived close to an airport. We took the lawnmower, and we wrote the word ‘help’ in the grass, just really hoping that an airplane or pilot would see that. I felt so betrayed, that nobody saw that. I tried to go ahead and speak up and yet now looking back, I can see that what I thought was a scream for help was something that was not vocalized. I mean that in a very abstract way, meaning me trying to say ‘I am suicidal’ was me going ‘I am not okay, I need help’. But because of society and where people were at [during that time] with mental health care and understanding trauma, traumatisation, and neglect of children, they did not necessarily put those pieces together. So once again, I hold a lot of compassion for that. I did try to reach out for help, and help fell on deaf ears. That is really sad. And yet, I did eventually get help. And I know that we will be talking about that in a bit. But I did get help. It was definitely later than it should have been. I am out and I hold a lot to be grateful for.   CJLPA : As you were just saying, you did eventually get help. Can you please walk us through how that happened?   JC: I did experience rehabilitation after my familial trafficking. The term ‘familial trafficking’ is the term within the anti-trafficking field to describe the exploitation and human trafficking, whether it its labour trafficking, sex trafficking, or both, within a familial relationship. That is my experience. That was my first trafficking, which included the labour trafficking. And then my second trafficking was pimp-controlled trafficking. I am going to focus on my escape from the familial trafficking.   I was actually at a hotel in Kansas City, and there was a person who knew the red flags because they were a survivor who had opened a safe house for other survivors of trafficking, which was like a leading edge at that time. When I met her in 2008, she saw me at this hotel and she recognised the red flags of trafficking and exploitation. She recognized I am not alone, that I did not have control of my own ID, things like that—hyper vigilance, extreme complex trauma responses. So when I was in the bathroom at this hotel she gave me her phone number on a piece of paper, and basically told me that she could help me if I wanted help. Now, I tell people who give out their contact information that is not safe. Back then—things have changed, we now know that’s not safe to do—I memorised this phone number and threw out that piece of paper and when I was able to get back to Canada I called her.   Some of those first phone calls were just so dramatic. They did not last long—like literally only a couple of minutes—but they left such an imprint on me. In one of the first phone calls she told me that I did not have to be defined by sex, which was such a new concept for me. She told me that at the age of 21, I could make my own choices. Once again, this was such a new concept for me even though I was 21. I was at the end of 2008. I had never conceptualised this because I had been so controlled—what I can eat, what I can wear, what I can listen to, what I do, when I do it. So the fact that somebody was telling me that I was an adult was mind-blowing. And so those phone calls continued and she eventually was able to go ahead and help me put together an escape plan. I was able to leave, which was really painful. It was extremely hard because I had younger siblings, and when I left I could not tell them that I was leaving. There is still a lot of grief and pain associated to that, but I was able to go ahead and get to Colorado where this woman had created the safe house. And I truly looked at her as being like that instrumental point in my life where she was able to intersect my exploitation and give me another choice. During those days where it was so hard to be able to wake up each day or to do things, to have her to be able to talk to and walk me through that process. I really am grateful to that individual. CJLPA : Transitioning away from that, it must have been all the more difficult to then integrate in society. What was this new experience like? How did your life change after you escaped human trafficking?   JC : It was so hard. The way that I conceptualise it is that during my trafficking and exploitation, I knew what to expect, I have been trained to know exactly how to survive even though I was walking into dangerous situations. I had been trained to go ahead and believe this is my normal, which is psychological manipulation and mind control, and I also had this whole conceptualization of ‘if I do x, y, and z, then I will be okay’. When I was able to escape, all of the formulas that I had come up with, ‘if I do x, y, and z, I will survive’, completely disintegrated. I was in this big brand-new world all by myself, and I had no idea what the rules to the game were. That was really, really hard. Not only did I have to learn how to sleep, how to engage as a normal person in society, the talk, the ways of acting—which, for those who are interested, there’s a word called code switching, which basically means like learning how to go ahead and engage in one situation, verbiage, language, and knowing what’s appropriate in another situation—I had to learn language, verbiage, ways of being, the ways of living and freedom. That was really, really hard.   I remember one day in particular where I was sitting outside, just so scared by everything around me. It is almost easier to live in that box than it is to live with all of these options and choices. I remember just taking a pen and drawing a little picture of a balance beam. And underneath the balance beam was this ball. On one side of the balance beam, I put a little stick figure to represent myself. Then I drew this magnet, to conceptualise a magnetic pole [pulling me] back into that box that I know, even though [what I know] is so painful, so traumatic, so damaging, versus trying to figure out what it would look like to live and what it would look like to go through all of the anxieties. All of the fears, all of the memories, all of the grief. That was definitely something that has taken years to process. It is because of therapists in my life and other people who have been able to walk that journey with me, to whom I have been able to say ‘let’s go and do this new thing together’. Doing new things together was really fun, and it built new neural pathways, it built new experiences, it built the ability to go ‘Oh, not everything is as scary as I thought it was’.   The new things that I tried were as simple as like a root beer float. And that was like an excitement in my mouth. Having that soda with ice cream together was so new. But it also was new things like learning how to take notes in school, learning how to study, how to read textbooks, how to go to a job, and finding out that you have to actually show up on time. There are guidelines for work and you just cannot leave whenever you want to, and things that were just new experiences and building my CV. All of that has taken a lot of time. I have been out for over 13 years now and life I would say is still never has gone [back] to that place of what I thought normal was. I still feel like I do not fit into society, I still feel like it is hard to belong, I still feel like the odd duck out or the odd person. But I have also had had to come to this place of, it is okay for me to be me, and it is okay for me to be awkward. I am going to embrace those elements of who I am. But it has taken a long time to get there.   CJLPA : That is truly remarkable Jessa. It is so difficult to even imagine what that process must have been like, when you have never known anything different from that, how you made that choice to enter this new life. And as scary as it was, you continue to thrive. What advice would you give to other survivors who are in that particular moment where they are being pulled by this magnet?   JC : I would just encourage them to not give up. It is normal and it is okay to feel feelings, it is normal to question, it is normal to have those ups and downs. And it is also okay to just keep taking steps ahead. It is okay to know that it is not always going to be this way, to know that the waves of emotion will eventually pass. It is okay to dream. And it is okay to see life beyond the confines of the abuse, the exploitation, the trafficking. It is okay to begin to take baby steps towards trusting safe people or trusting people who are showing themselves to be safe, showing themselves to be safer than the people who perpetrated their crimes. I would just encourage them to keep on going, it is worth it.   CJLPA : I now want to discuss your new life and what you have gone on to do. Since escaping human trafficking and finally beginning your life, you have proceeded to inspire the world with your courage and motivation to help other victims. In 2015 you cofounded Bridge Hope, an anti-trafficking organisation that has worked with over 457 survivors of trafficking and modern slavery as well as providing training for organisations and governments on what human trafficking is and how to spot it and combat it. Now, Bridge Hope has merged with the National Trafficking Sheltered Alliance. Can you tell us what it was like to create an organisation like this? It must have been very difficult to remain so close to this crime and constantly talk about it and relive it with other survivors.   JC : I first cofounded the organization with my husband, because we saw the gaps in society surrounding marginalised individuals: LGBTQ+, boys, individuals with disabilities, individuals with medical conditions. We founded this organization to truly try to meet those gaps in a trauma-informed, survivor-centred way, as well as provide trauma-informed education to empower other organisations and nonprofits to work with survivors. It was a hard process. You are so right, that having that [experience of] my own exploitation [while] engaging with the exploitation of other people really hurt. I think I also have a gift where, because of my exploitation and trafficking, I see things, I am able to build trust and relationship with survivors. It actually gave me a huge gift to be able to provide resources and services that met the true needs of survivors, while also empowering all these other organisations to do so as well. So I really see actually my exploitation as being an asset to the organization, but with that asset it was difficult and it was challenging.   I definitely needed to do a lot of self-care, still need to do self-care. But I think the beauty really exists around my exploitation and trafficking. I took preventative steps such as going to therapy each and every week, doing my own self-care, having that awareness and being able to tell staff that we need to take time off because we need to take care of ourselves, versus individuals who maybe do not have the same kind of history, don’t have the same kind of self-awareness. They might say ‘everything was good, I do not need help’. That vicarious trauma, coming from a lack of self-awareness actually can create further damage and harm both the personal and the individuals that they are trying to serve and help. It can create damage and re-traumatisation for those individuals. So I actually really see that as a huge help, utilising my lived experiences to meet the needs of those that we are working with and trying to serve.   CJLPA : You are now no longer running Bridge Hope, but are still involved in the fight for eliminating human trafficking. Can you further discuss the work that you do now?   JC : I left Bridge Hope about a year and a half ago, and I’m currently a mental health therapist in the state of Colorado. I work with those who have experienced complex trauma and I do a lot of work with survivors of human trafficking. I love that I am able to use my professional training and my licenses and certifications to be able to really meet the needs of survivors in a very different way than what I did in direct services. I am still doing a lot of education and training. I am a consultant for the Expert Consultant Network for the Department of State Trafficking in Persons Office. I do a lot of speaking and lecturing around the globe on issues and topics related to human trafficking. I am a PhD student in a counsellor education and supervision program. Some of my research there is looking at the multicultural and social justice approaches to being able to educate and train counsellors, mental health therapists, and people in the healthcare fields to be able to work with those who have experienced human trafficking. I have also done a lot of research on the mental health implications of human trafficking. So I am really trying to meet these needs in a very different way than what I did when I was in direct services. I really love being able to still engage in the fight against human trafficking and being able to provide resources and services and prevent exploitation, just in a different way. I think that is pretty amazing. CJLPA : What are your dreams for the future, and how are you taking steps towards those dreams?   JC : I have so many dreams: being able to finish this PhD and maybe pursue further education, be in academia, be known as a researcher researching the implications of human trafficking, but also to empower clinicians to truly meet the needs of those who have experienced this. That all comes together with the dream of being able to write my autobiography someday and have it published by a large publishing house like Penguin or Random House to truly help individuals. No matter what one has experienced their past, it does not define them. Yes, I have experienced the worst of humanity. And yet a lot of people experience trauma, a lot of people experience very negative elements of humanity. Yes, on that continuum of trauma, my trauma might be on that extreme end. And yet I really believe that my story and my experiences can give hope to anybody who has experienced hurt, challenges, trauma, and can give them hope that they too can go ahead and take those courageous steps. They too can find that inner bravery to move into a future that they’re proud of, to move into the future of excitement, dreams, hope, beauty, love. And so I really that is one of my hopes, to write that book. CJLPA : I wanted to now transition towards better understanding human trafficking, the causes, and the ways we can continue addressing it. Human trafficking remains a massive issue, not only in developing countries, but also in Western countries. What are the main causes of human trafficking, or factors allowing it to occur?   JC : It is really hard to delineate just one main cause. There are so many different typologies of trafficking, there are so many different ways that trafficking emerges in the community. But I think one of the things specifically as it relates to labour trafficking is the very demand that society has created for cheap products, for the consumerism of buying one thing, and then moving on and just needing to buy another thing. It really lends itself to a situation where labour trafficking is going to continue to exist to the extent that society is demanding cheap products. I think that is one fundamental issue that we have. When it comes to sex trafficking, just as the demand continues to take place, we are also going to see the continuation of the exploitation of humans for sex and we are going to see sex trafficking continue. If there are people who are going to purchase humans, there will always be people who will seek ways to meet these demands through criminal means and criminal actions. I think that really ties together.   One element of just sex trafficking specifically that I want to just address is the way that pornography really ties into sex trafficking. Lots of pornography is created by those who are being trafficked. And that is something that I think is difficult for a lot of people to understand. I do not know of any ethical means or ways to go ahead and purchase pornography. Individuals who are being utilised in pornography may sign a contract, but are coerced or forced, or made to do things that are not in that contract. That is a form of human trafficking, that is exploiting them within that environment and situation and putting them in a really hard place. If a child is used in pornography, we have that child sexual abuse material and that is automatically human trafficking. So at least in the US, under the federal definition of human trafficking one does not need to prove force, fraud, and coercion. If somebody is a minor, they are automatically a victim of human trafficking if commercial sex acts are taking place. I think we just need to wrestle with that. I know that that can be a really difficult topic for people to talk about, and a really difficult element of this conversation. Yet I think we would not be doing justice to this conversation if we did not talk about some of these streams that impact and perpetuate exploitation.   Some of the questions that I think about within this kind of conversation are just asking people, ‘what are your values?’ What are you willing to sacrifice for pleasure, for having a new outfit, for the chocolate that you enjoy, for the coffee that you enjoy? It boils down to the question of, ‘what is the worth of humanity to you?’ What is the worth of humanity—that is so valuable for each individual person to wrestle with. I think, after wrestling with that, we can then begin to take tangible steps to create change. So for instance, one of the things that I have done is that I will not eat chocolate unless I know it has been ethically sourced. My love for chocolate, my cravings for chocolate—humanity is worth more than all of that. So for me, the fact that I make that daily choice of going ‘okay, I might want to have chocolate right now, but I am not going to have a piece of chocolate unless I am going to make sure that I only purchase the ethical chocolate’. That is just a small little choice that I have made, and other people don’t need to make that choice. But I think just being aware of what is being consumed, being aware of what is being used, being aware of the demand for humanity, the demand for humans can lead us to begin to decide what kind of changes we each need to make to put humanity higher than our own cravings or needs.   CJLPA : What other red flags are there that medical professionals should know, teachers, peers, but also the community as a whole, in order to see human trafficking in its early stages and to ensure that it is no longer enabled in society?   JC : This could take us the whole day to talk about. I specifically do trainings for medical professionals online on what red flags look like. I do 90-minute trainings for just educators, and even trainings for familial trafficking and red flags. To condense it all is really challenging. But I think some of the things that individuals need to be aware of, at least for medical professionals, is looking at when individuals who come into the emergency room or for treatment. What are the things that they are saying, are you taking the time to listen? As an example, tampons that are stuck in the vagina with strings cut off, or makeup sponges, would be an indicator to me of possible exploitation and trafficking. We might see a lot of somatic complaints that do not necessarily line up with what has been presented on a physiological level. With data that’s been gathered, we might, on a medical level, have individuals coming in for regular STD checks and asking for evidence of the results to presumably show to other people.   Just one red flag does not mean that it is a human trafficking. You need to have multiple red flags to be able to say that something deeper is happening here. It is not our job as civilians, it is not our job as medical professionals or as educators to go ahead and be the detective. We can see things and then make the reports as our countries, as our areas or counties ask us to. That is something that I just want people to remember, it is not our job to be the detective, versus it [being our job] to see things and then to say, what we are seeing is trauma to the vagina, the penis, the rectum. You might have a teenager who is coming in with extensive rectal bleeding. To be really frank, that is not normal for most teenagers if they do not have any underlying biological reason for that. So just being able to go ahead and just have that awareness and just that overall perspective, saying ‘okay, something’s not adding up. With what I am seeing, there are red flags of potential sexual abuse, potential traumas’.   Medical providers might also see, in regard to labour trafficking, individuals who have chemical exposure where they don’t have any need to use that chemical or machinery. There are different things that we can see on that level. We might see students sleeping and eating at school instead of learning. We might see young children not able to actually sit down. It might look like they are just being disrespectful. It might look like they like they have ADHD, but it is very possible that if they’ve been sexually abused and are being sexually abused, to where, literally, that part of their body is in so much pain that they cannot stay still and cannot sit down. So to just have that awareness, I like to say that trauma-informed awareness of going ‘okay, through a trauma lens, what else could be happening other than that this is a student who is just not wanting to listen?’   We might see changes of grades, we might see people not go to school like me. I did not go to school until I was in my 20s, when I was able to get a GED and enrol within college classes here in the US after I had escaped. You might see people who just really struggle academically, peers might see a lot of cell phones or a lot of cell phone numbers, especially if it was given in secret, or a safe adult does not know. You can get burner phone apps now for our phones. You might see a lot of numbers that way. But a lot of teens or peers will actually be given a separate device, whether it be a computer, tablet, or cell phone, because then it is hidden secret and parents do not know. So if parents take away a cell phone, they do not know about these other devices that are still being utilised to communicate with people with ill intents.   We might see a lot of 16-year old people [in these situations] which actually can be defined, at least in the US, under human trafficking as well. Because if that 16-year old is being utilised to coerce somebody into doing sex acts, ‘you do this blow job on my friend, and I won’t show that picture, I won’t send that picture to everybody in the school’—it has been utilised as a means of control, which is human trafficking, under that federal definition. We might see insecurities, people being called sluts at school, everybody knowing who the ‘school slut’ is, seeing lots of cars in the neighbourhood or a lot of people going in and out of homes, or an unusual number of people living in a home. For instance, in labour trafficking situations you could have like 20 people living in a home with two bathrooms. That is not normal. You could see somebody picking everybody up and taking them to their place of work. You might see lots of boys and girls who went home with a manager or a person and something just feels really off, it is not a social or group home for social services. Rather, something just feels off—in my situation, us not going to school and being outside should have been a red flag to my neighbours. It should have given some indications that some things were not right.   Boys do not have what are traditionally known as pimps, they have market facilitators who help facilitate the transactions between sex and money. In the US, as high as 50% of kids who are being trafficked for sex are boys. We also see a lot of boys and men being trafficked for labour. So we need to add boys and men to the conversation. Some boys experience familial trafficking, which often starts at a younger age, and then they leave the house. But you can also have families who go ahead and say, ‘Oh, you are gay, or you are trans, you need to leave, you cannot live here’. And so those throwaway kids are also at high risk for exploitation and trafficking. Familial trafficking is so huge in the US. Statistics are showing that familial trafficking is one of the highest forms of exploitation and trafficking, but it is also one of the most hidden typologies of trafficking because a child does not go missing. That child is in that family and the brainwashing that that family does to go ahead and keep everything hidden is so extreme. We need to just have that awareness. People need to get trained and educated and familial trafficking. Then we could talk about labour trafficking, we could talk about domestic servitude, all of the different typologies and other professions. But in a nutshell, those are just some of the red flags.   CJLPA : What was going through my mind as you were listing these red flags is the follow-up or next step. Is it, in your opinion, best to specifically speak to the [person you are concerned about] and directly ask them? Or is it more of being that lending ear, having those discussions of ‘how are you, are you okay?’, and hoping that they will say something if they need help? Or is it just a matter of accepting that maybe they are so manipulated and traumatised that they are afraid to speak up, and you just should report it immediately?   JC : I really believe that relationships are so vital, being able to help a person feel safe and to begin to share their truth, or begin to tiptoe closer to sharing their truth. And so part of that, I think, is that it is not always safe to approach a potential victim, so being aware of the environment and situation. With medical professionals, I encourage them, if they think that they are working with somebody who is experiencing traumas and experiencing potentially human trafficking, to say ‘we are going to do an X-ray’, as other people typically are not allowed in areas where radiation take place. That is a great excuse to get the person away from those other people and ask ‘what’s going on? Are you okay?’   We cannot make an adult leave a traumatic situation and environment. If it is a child, we are mandated reporters in the US. So being able to provide resources and say ‘if you need a safe place to talk through this or keep talking through this, you can come back’ is vital. If they are an adult, they might have to go back out and keep on working. And that is literally for their own survival. I think every profession has unique abilities to go ahead and build those relationships, plant seeds of hope, and be able to go, we are here, if you want to reach out again, and we are not going to go anywhere, and it is okay to go ahead and contact us again, or come back. Those are just some of the ways that I think are so beneficial. I love empowering law enforcement to build relationships with survivors, because that then becomes a safe relationship. For a lot of survivors of human trafficking they have had very negative experiences with law enforcement, or with individuals who are policymakers. So being able to build those relationships, then enables them to think, ‘they are human too, and they actually truly want to help me, and they will be there when I want to get out, and they can connect me to resources’. I think that is so powerful in an educational setting. For educators to create that safe space for people is vital.   CJLPA : Following up on the available resources, can you discuss the gaps in the current legal framework and where we require policy reform to mitigate and prevent human trafficking occurring around the world? From your experience, what is missing?   JC : The gaps that I will be sharing are from my personal experience domestically and internationally, so this is a broad picture of those arenas that I see. I believe that frontline officers need to be trained on Trafficking in Persons. There need to be standardised operating procedures in place for identification and collaboration between countries, when victims and survivors are crossed over borders, but also for when a victim self-identifies and begins to walk that journey of becoming a survivor to being a thriver. It is also necessary on a prevention level to recognise the ways that, on a socio-ecological level, different systems intersect with each other. I think we need to look at creating prevention [opportunities] through empowering a community organization to see the red flags and to build relationships with vulnerable individuals. It creates prevention and protection from future harm. All of that is to say that I think being able to go ahead and have global conversations is absolutely essential. I think it is necessary for us to incorporate trauma-informed, survivor-centred approaches into those conversations and to talk about next steps, about what we can do as we learn more about the impact of trafficking within our communities.   CJLPA : What specifically would you like to see from the international community, such as politicians or diplomats, to better address and eliminate these human rights violations that are occurring?   JC : I would really love to see more collaboration. I would love to see people talking and engaging together. I would love to see more trauma-informed and survivor-centred approaches. Right now, I think trauma-informed is a buzzword that is coming out, at least within the anti-trafficking movement. And yet the incorporation of trauma-informed principles is still lacking. Being able to create a foundation globally with trauma-informed approaches and what it means to be survivor-centred, and then incorporate that into the global and international work being done. I would love to see more mentorship of survivors, empowering them to also become professionals in the field, which is really, truly the amplification of lived experience experts. I would love to see more unity or kindness. And I really also see that we need to have more dedication to the prosecution, the protection, and the prevention of exploitation and trafficking.   CJLPA : On a final note, what is a lasting message you think readers and viewers should know?   JC : Even though I do not know your story, I believe that there is a reason why we are all passionate about making a difference in this world. That is very sacred, for us to be able to have that passion and desire to make that difference. That leaves us with a choice, do we pursue the value and the worth of the human and humanity? Or do we allow our hearts to become hurt and cynical to the injustices that are taking place globally? I really want to just encourage people to think through that question, to really ponder where they stand in the midst of that, and then to go ahead and really tend that garden that they have within themselves and tend it with kindness, personal kindness, and personal care. Because it is only from that place of wellness and health that we can truly go ahead and begin to continue to make that difference in that area that we are passionate about, and be able to find these crimes, be able to continue to raise awareness. And so as we do so we then create light, and that light truly overpowers darkness. This interview was conducted by Nadia Jahnecke, Legal Editor and Founder of CJLPA: The Human Agenda. In addition to her role at CJLPA, Nadia is a qualified lawyer in England & Wales specialising in public international law.

Knuckle dragging, low-slung, dead pig-eyed, A belch or a growl passes for thought, Ogres, tramping through dirty snow fields To sniff out banks of flowers in the cold: Carnations, roses, violets, chrysanthemums, Anemones. Monument to a man without a needed grave Or headstone: an activist who went for one walk Too many. Dying conveniently of sudden death syndrome, Among the silver birches of a mind frozen land. The flowers are feverishly demolished By the men in uniform black: black Down to their leaden souls, stuffing Diaphanous petals into shiny plastic Sacking: trodden on for good measure, Never to see the sun again. But what is this? A jackboot stamps. There is something pushing strong under-foot, A lone green sprout, and then a yellow flower. Out of every thug footfall, flowers press upwards, in perfumed beauty, exploding, To chase the slack jawed back to their endless shadow. In the helping snow, the flowers fuse and grow Until, Across the waiting city, They bend into a dissident smile. Paul Pickering Paul Pickering is the author of seven novels, Wild About Harry , Perfect English , The Blue Gate of Babylon , Charlie Peace , The Leopard’s Wife , Over the Rainbow and Elephant . The Blue Gate of Babylon was a New York Times notable book of the year, who dubbed it ‘superior literature’. Often compared to Graham Greene and Evelyn Waugh, Pickering was chosen as one of the top ten young British novelists by bookseller WH Smith and has been long-listed for the Booker Prize three times. Educated at the Royal Masonic Schools and the University of Leicester, he has a PhD in Creative Writing from Bath Spa University where he is a Visiting Fellow, presented his doctoral thesis to the Bulgakov Society in Moscow, recently completed a Hawthornden Fellowship Residency on Lake Como and is a member of the Folio Prize Academy. The novelist J.G. Ballard said Pickering’s work is ‘truly subversive’. As well as short stories and poetry, he has written plays, film scripts and columns for The Times and Sunday Times. He lives in London and the Pyrenees. A major theme of his novel Elephant , published by Salt in 2021, is innocence. His new blackly comic, absurdly realist novel Lucy , about obedience and rebellion, political and sexual, is published on July 15 by Salt. He is working on a new novel, CONVERSATION WITH A LION , about how things fit together and fly apart. The novel tries to explain the impossible absurdity of living, impossible like a conversation with a lion.

Roshi Rouzbehani, a London-based Iranian illustrator, uses her captivating artwork to champion social causes. Beyond captivating aesthetics, her editorial and portrait illustrations address critical issues like gender equality, women’s rights, and mental health awareness, sparking conversations and advocating for positive change.   CJLPA : Thank you for taking the time to interview with The Cambridge Journal of Law, Politics, and Art to discuss your work as an illustrator and artist with your pieces having been featured in publications such as The New Yorker , the  Guardian , The Washington Post , and numerous others. Your illustrations and portraits are known for advocating for the rights of Iranian women. Could you share the specific experiences or events that initially drew you to this cause?   Roshi Rouzbehani :   I have always felt a deep connection to the advocacy for the rights of Iranian women, shaped by my upbringing in the oppressive patriarchal regime of Iran. In this societal framework, women often find themselves lowered to second-class citizenship, confronting various challenges and injustices. The struggles faced by political prisoners within my family and circle of friends exposed me to the harsh realities of existence under such a system.   Having resided in Iran until my early twenties, I closely witnessed the profound impact of religious dictatorship on every facet of life. This firsthand experience ignited a determination within me to employ my illustrations and portraits as a powerful tool for highlighting these pervasive issues. Through my art, my objective is not only to encapsulate the strength and resilience of Iranian women, but also to catalyze change and advocate for a society that is more just and equitable, enabling women to fully embrace the rights and freedoms they rightfully deserve. CJLPA : In light of recent events, such as the cases of Mahsa Amini and Armita Geravand, how do you see your role in raising awareness about human rights issues in Iran, and more specifically, women’s rights?   RR : I feel responsibility to amplify the voices of the oppressed and to challenge the societal norms that maintain gender inequality in Iran. Illustrations have the power to evoke emotions and create a sense of empathy transcending language barriers so that everyone can understand without the need for translation. Through visually portraying the experiences and struggles of Iranian people, I can contribute to raise awareness about their rights. My work serves as a catalyst for social change, aiming to inspire a transformative impact on the collective consciousness.   CJLPA : Can you describe a specific piece of your work that has been particularly impactful in highlighting the challenges Iranian women face in terms of their rights and freedoms?   RR : On the first anniversary of Mahsa Amini’s death in custody, I curated a series of ten images titled ‘Mahsa Amini and a Year of Brutality and Courage in Iran’ which was published in the Guardian . One of these images, titled ‘An Eye for Freedom’, pays homage to Niloofar Aghaei, a midwife who lost sight in one eye during last year’s protests. The image portrays the harsh reality of security forces using live bullets, metal pellets, and tear gas to injure several individuals. Niloofar Aghaei, a woman dedicated to bringing new life into the world, bravely took to the streets in the fight for freedom. Her story serves as a powerful reminder of the Woman, Life, and Freedom motto. CJLPA : How do you balance the cultural and religious sensitivities in your illustrations when addressing women’s rights issues in Iran?   RR : I approach my work with great care, striving to present a range of perspectives and avoiding oversimplified portrayals. My focus is on showcasing the diverse experiences of women in Iran, grounded in the real stories of Iranian women to prevent stereotypes and ensure accuracy. Rather than sparking conflict, my intention is to initiate conversations. I use art as a means for positive change, always mindful of the cultural and religious sensitivities in Iran. Yet, I align with the idea expressed by Cesar A Cruz, later echoed by Banksy, that ‘Art should comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable’.   CJLPA : Iran has faced accusations of violating human rights, particularly those of women. How do your illustrations contribute to the global conversation on addressing these violations?   RR : Illustrations can serve as powerful tools for advocacy and raising awareness, effectively capturing the audience’s attention and leaving a lasting impact that increases engagement with the relevant issues. The emotional resonance they carry establishes a deep connection to various causes, nurturing a collective understanding of humanity among individuals from diverse geographical and cultural contexts.   My illustrations, created with the intent of amplifying conversations on human rights, have found a broad audience on social media platforms. This widespread sharing extends their reach to people with varied perspectives, contributing to a more inclusive and global dialogue on women rights issues. These visuals have become resources for activists and organizations, providing them with visual content for use in campaigns and protests. An example is my short graphic novel featured in ‘Feminism in Pictures’, a recent collection published by the Heinrich Böll Foundation. This graphic novel delves into the Woman, Life, Freedom movement, exemplifying how illustrations can convey complex narratives and contribute to the international discourse on feminism and human rights. CJLPA : Your recent book, 50 Inspiring Iranian Women , focuses on extraordinary Iranian women. How does this work connect to your broader mission of advocating for women’s rights through art?   RR : Beyond merely showcasing individual achievements, 50 Inspiring Iranian Women  aims to challenge stereotypes, broaden the recognition of diverse accomplishments, and contribute to a more inclusive global discourse on outstanding women. I identify this book as a form of advocacy, pushing against societal norms and promoting a reflective appreciation for the capabilities and potential inherent in every woman. Its purpose is to serve as a source of inspiration for people worldwide, shedding light on the active pursuit of dreams and ambitions by Iranian women—a reality deserving greater acknowledgment. By amplifying the visibility of these women’s achievements, I aim to provide inspiring role models for future generations. My aspiration is that this book not only motivates its readers but also acts as a catalyst for change, challenging stereotypes, and fostering a deeper understanding of the significant contributions made by Iranian women to humanity. Within the pages of this book, I extend an invitation to readers to take a journey of discovery, enlightenment, and, above all, celebration of the limitless potential residing within every woman.   CJLPA : Could you share any collaborations or projects where you’ve worked with organizations or individuals to further the cause of women’s rights in Iran through your artwork?   RR : I’ve contributed a chapter to Woman Life Freedom: Voices and Art from the Women’s Protests in Iran , an anthology expertly edited by Malu Halasa and published by Saqi Books in 2023. This remarkable collection links narratives of women’s resistance in Iran, employing a powerful combination of text, art, and photography. It serves as a universal call to action and a proud commemoration of the women whom the regime has attempted, unsuccessfully, to silence. In my chapter, titled ‘Keeping the Revolution Alive’, I presented a curated selection of my illustrations and delved into the details of my mission to shed light on the invaluable contributions of Iranian women in the protests through the medium of art.   CJLPA : Iran has seen widespread dissent and opposition actions taken by women, such as women cutting their hair in protest. How does your artwork play a role in capturing and conveying the spirit of these movements?   RR : In Iranian culture, women have historically cut their hair off in mourning. This act in the Woman, Life, Freedom movement became a symbol of protest, signifying a reclaiming of bodily autonomy by challenging established notions of femininity and standing in defiance against the oppressive regime. My artistic efforts are dedicated to capturing the essence of these protests and expressions. For instance, in a piece created for the Guardian Weekly cover, I depicted a defiant Iranian woman boldly raising her fist while clutching strands of hair. The flowing hair and scarf symbolize the winds of change. Additionally, in a personal artwork later featured in Woman Life Freedom , titled ‘My Hair is Not Your Battleground’, I portrayed an Iranian woman actively cutting her hair. This imagery conveys a powerful message: Iranian women reject the politicization and ideological control of their bodies. CJLPA : In your opinion, what is the current state of women’s rights in Iran, and where do you see opportunities for improvement?   RR : In addition to the challenges imposed by compulsory hijab and restrictive dress codes, Iranian women face discrimination both in legal frameworks and daily practices significantly impacting their lives, particularly in areas such as marriage, divorce, and custody. However, they consistently actively assume roles as agents in the pursuit of their rights, demonstrating commitment to driving change. I hope to witness a future where Iranian women can enjoy true freedom. However, given the current complexities in the socio-political landscape, this transformation may not occur quickly. Despite these uncertainties, ongoing advocacy and collective efforts provide a source of hope for gradual progress towards a society where Iranian women can genuinely live freely.   CJLPA : As an Iranian artist based in London, how do you navigate the complexities of advocating for women’s rights in Iran while living abroad?   RR : Technology, particularly through social media, online campaigns, and collaborations, plays a crucial role in my remote advocacy efforts. This approach not only facilitates engagement with audiences in Iran and worldwide but also enables connections with like-minded individuals and organizations, forming a collective force for change. The use of these platforms allows me to transcend geographic limitations and contribute to a broader conversation about women’s issues. Through various channels, such as social media, art exhibitions, and online campaigns, I strive to showcase the realities faced by Iranian women. This serves as a call for justice and equality, amplifying their voices to a global audience.   It is crucial to note that I approach my work with caution, recognizing the potential risks to the safety of women in Iran. Residing outside of Iran, I am mindful not to encourage actions that could jeopardize their well-being, such as advocating for street protests. Instead, my art serves as a medium to echo and reflect their stories, emphasizing the importance of unity and amplifying their experiences to the world.   CJLPA : How do you see the role of international awareness and support in addressing human rights violations in Iran, particularly women’s rights, and how do your illustrations contribute to this global dialogue?   RR : International awareness and support play a pivotal role in addressing human rights violations in Iran. This global solidarity provides a platform for collective action, empowering individuals, organizations, and governments worldwide to stand in support of Iranian women. It serves as a catalyst for advocacy efforts, urging positive change and holding the Iranian government accountable for its actions.   The global spotlight becomes a powerful tool in shedding light on issues related to women’s rights in Iran, including gender-based discrimination and restrictions on personal freedoms. By bringing these issues to the forefront, an international environment that is more supportive of women’s rights protection can be fostered, encouraging a collective commitment to addressing these challenges. In this context, my illustrations serve as a means of contributing visually compelling and emotionally resonant narratives to the global dialogue on women’s rights. Through these artistic expressions, I aim to encourage understanding, empathy, and a shared dedication to promoting the rights and well-being of Iranian women on the international stage. By offering a unique perspective through art, I hope to spark conversations that drive positive change and inspire a more compassionate and informed global community in the interest of women’s rights.   CJLPA : Could you discuss a recent illustration or portrait that represents a specific challenge or triumph in the fight for women’s rights in Iran?   RR : I created a portrait in honor of Narges Mohammadi, the winner of this year’s Nobel Peace Prize, for her relentless efforts against the oppression of women in Iran and her advocacy for human rights and freedom. Her win holds profound significance for all Iranian women championing democracy and liberty in the country. Within the image, a reflection of the resounding chants from Iran’s streets is captured, echoing the powerful words ‘Zan, Zendegi, Azadi’—Women, Life, Freedom. CJLPA : Many of your illustrations are emotionally resonant and tell stories. Can you share an example of an illustration that conveys a particularly powerful message about women’s rights in Iran?   RR : I originally designed a poster for my social media channels. It later found a place in the Danish edition of a feminist coffee table book entitled I Can’t Believe I Still Have to Protest This Shit . This book features 20 posters documenting a century of women’s struggles around the world. My artwork portrays diverse Iranian women standing shoulder to shoulder atop the Azadi (Freedom) Tower in Tehran. Through this imagery, I express the hope for a future where unity brings about bright and liberated days. I envision that by remaining committed together, we can collectively witness and embrace such a day.   CJLPA : How has your personal journey and background influenced your approach to advocating for women’s rights in Iran through art?   RR : Since childhood, I’ve observed the imposition of gender segregation and compulsory hijab in public spaces, impacting daily life for women in my community. These personal experiences strengthened my conviction that the Iranian regime enforces gender apartheid, systematically restricting women’s rights. Motivated by these encounters, my art serves as a platform for activism, challenging societal norms, tackling women’s under-representation, and advocating for their rights.   CJLPA : In your experience, how do you see the intersection of religion, cultural norms, and the struggle for women’s rights in Iran, and how does your art address this complexity?   RR : The intersection of religion, cultural norms, and the struggle for women’s rights in Iran presents a complex tapestry. Islamic principles heavily influence legal frameworks and societal expectations, shaping cultural norms that impact women’s experiences. Specifically, in the case of compulsory hijab, the complexity extends beyond religious interpretations. It is linked with the political structure, serving as a tool for the Iranian government to assert authority over society.   My art addresses this complexity by fostering understanding and respecting cultural and religious nuances. My illustrations explore the challenges women face within religious and cultural norms, acknowledging the broader political implications. The goal is not to impose external perspectives but to amplify the voices of Iranian women. In essence, my art serves as a medium for empathy and understanding, engaging viewers in a thoughtful exploration of these complexities, including the political dimensions of compulsory hijab.   CJLPA : Are there specific artists, activists, or role models who have inspired your approach to advocacy through art in the context of Iranian women’s rights?   RR : Among the many artists and activists that I admire, Parastou Forouhar, an Iranian-German contemporary artist, holds a special place. Tragically, in 1998, Parastou’s parents, the political activists Daryoush and Parvaneh Forouhar, became victims of a brutal murder in their Tehran home. This devastating event was part of a series of politically motivated assassinations targeting intellectuals and dissidents. The overwhelming impact of losing her parents resonates not only in the content of Parastou’s artwork but also in her persistent commitment to advocating for human rights and social justice in Iran. Through her art, Parastou delves into political and social issues, offering a thoughtful perspective on the sociopolitical landscape in Iran. Her creative expression serves as a moving medium for raising awareness and prompting critical conversations about the challenges faced by those who dare to stand against oppressive regimes.   CJLPA : Can you discuss the potential for change and progress regarding women’s rights in Iran?   RR : The path to improved women’s rights in Iran involves legal changes, shifts in society, global influence, and ongoing efforts by activists. While hoping for a day when Iranian women can live freely, it may take time due to the complexities in the current socio-political landscape. Despite uncertainties, ongoing advocacy gives hope for gradual progress toward a society where Iranian women can truly experience freedom. This interview was conducted by Solomon Njombai, Legal Researcher at CJLPA. Solomon, an Advocate of the High Court of Kenya, holds a Master of Arts degree in International Relations and an LL.M in Energy Law. His primary focus lies in comprehending how energy intertwines with global issues and how it drives interactions between states on a global scale.

Ali Safavi is a member of Iran’s Parliament in Exile, National Council of Resistance of Iran (NCRI), and President of Near East Policy Research (NEPR), a consulting and policy analysis firm in Washington, DC. A sociologist by career, Safavi studied and taught at UCLA, California State University Los Angeles and University of Michigan from 1972 until 1981. An activist during the anti-Shah student movement in the 1970s in the US, Safavi has been involved in Iranian affairs since then and has lectured and written extensively on issues related to Iran, Iraq, terrorism, nuclear proliferation, and the political process in the Middle East. This interview was conducted on 4 November 2023.   Personal Introduction   CJLPA : Can you elaborate on your role and experiences as an activist during the Anti-Shah protests in the 1970s and your involvement in the student movement in the US during that period?   Ali Safavi : Before the revolution, I pursued studies in sociology at UCLA and taught at California State University, and the University of Michigan from 1972 to 1981. My older brother, Hossein, who was later executed by the clerical regime at the age of 29, was also studying in the US at that time. He focused on aerospace engineering at Northrop University in California and was a prolific writer and editor. Both Hossein and I actively participated in the vibrant anti-Shah student movement of the 1970s. We distributed pamphlets and reading materials opposing the Shah’s corrupt dictatorship, participated in meetings, conferences, and protests by Iranian students in Los Angeles, the Bay area, and elsewhere.   The plight of political prisoners, especially the leaders of the People’s Mojahedin Organization of Iran (PMOI) also known by its Farsi name, the Mujahedin-e Khalq (MEK), deeply resonated with us in the mid-1970s. The MEK, initially operating underground during the mid-1960s, gained widespread recognition in 1971 after the arrest of most of its leaders and members. Figures like Mehdi Rezaei became prominent in the struggle. At only 19, Mehdi Rezaei delivered a poignant and historic discourse against the Shah during a military tribunal, knowing it would lead to severe torture and his execution. His sacrifices earned him the affectionate nickname ‘the rose of the revolution’ among the Iranian people, and he was executed by a firing squad in 1972. Mehdi Rezaei’s impact on society was so significant that Ahmad Shamlou, arguably Iran’s most famous poet, dedicated an entire poem in his honor.   The struggle, conviction, bravery, and perseverance under SAVAK’s brutal tortures of individuals like Mehdi Rezaei and Ali Asghar Badizadegan, one of MEK’s three original founders, inspired many students studying abroad, including myself. Badizadegan, despite enduring unspeakable agony, remained silent and was executed in May 1972. My understanding of the MEK deepened through reading the last defense of their leadership, including Massoud Rajavi, at the Shah’s military tribunals and their books smuggled out of Iran.   The historic protests against the Shah’s visit to the US in November 1977 crystallized dissent. Tear gas filled the air as students confronted the regime, capturing an iconic moment of the Shah wiping his tears, induced by the gas, behind President Carter’s podium at the White House. Mohammad Hanifnejad, the founder of the MEK, prophetically declared days before his execution, ‘Our deaths will serve to motivate and fuel the future struggles of our people’. Time has become the arbiter of truth, validating his foresight. Since those tumultuous days, the legacy of sacrifice has reverberated, becoming the catalyst for enduring struggles, and I am humbled to have played a very modest role in this historic odyssey.   CJLPA : Building on your experiences during the Anti-Shah student movement, are there specific incidents or encounters that significantly shaped your views on activism and the political landscape in Iran?   AS : My intellectual journey and political convictions during that period were shaped by numerous small and significant episodes and interactions. Two pivotal chapters, however, stand out as prominent markers.   The first chapter unfolded with the discovery of a new movement known as the MEK. Founded by visionary Muslim intellectuals—Mohammad Hanifnejad, Saeed Mohsen, and Ali Asghar Badizadegan—in September 1965, the organization aimed to replace the Shah’s dictatorship with a democratic and secular republic. The organization rooted its principles in a progressive and tolerant interpretation of Islam, presenting a counter-narrative to the rigid and medieval views propagated by clerics. Their remarkable achievement lay in their meticulous exploration of the Holy Quran and the Nahj al-Balagha (Path of Eloquence), authored by Ali, the first Shiite Imam. Through an in-depth examination of the teachings and traditions of Prophet Mohammed and the Shiite Imams, they successfully unearthed the authentic and original ethos and teachings of Islam. This endeavour effectively dispelled the misrepresentations of the religion that had been skewed by despotic leaders to further their own ends, thus unveiling the genuine, enlightened essence of Islam.   This historic overhaul extended to the understanding of God, human evolution, gender relations, social dynamics, and concepts such as the afterlife, jurisprudence, Islamic rituals, and history. The broad revitalization of Islamic philosophy was a stark departure from the self-serving narratives woven by the mullahs, who had wielded Islam for centuries as a tool of profit. As a young university student in the US, encountering this rejuvenating and modern outlook invigorated my belief in individual agency and a personal connection with God. It harmonized my revived personal beliefs with the political vision of establishing a modern, secular, and democratic state in my homeland that respects human rights for the first time in its history. Back then, progressive Islamic thinking did not exist. Instead, Marxist ideas held sway in more underdeveloped countries like Iran, where the intelligentsia had been greatly impacted by the 1917 Bolshevik Revolution in Tsarist Russia. The MEK founders, and subsequently, Massoud Rajavi, the sole surviving member of its original leadership, offered Iranians opposing the Shah an alternative vision, one that rejected Marxist materialist philosophy and concepts.   The second chapter was when my curiosity led me to Neauphle-le-Château outside Paris in 1978 to explore the rising figure of Khomeini. At the time, he was positioning himself as the leader of the anti-Shah revolution with the help of Western media. Interactions with Khomeini himself and his supporters during this pivotal moment left me convinced that they were fundamentalists driven solely by the pursuit of power. My fortuitous departure from France, preceding the revolution, afforded me a firsthand understanding of Khomeini’s true colours. ‘This is too good to be true’, I recall telling one of my friends as I was about to depart for the airport to return to the States. This lived experience solidified my belief in the MEK as the singular ideological, cultural, and political alternative to the imminent havoc orchestrated by the mullahs. Thousands of young individuals, like myself, were gradually awakening to this political reality, distancing themselves from the right-wing Islamic fundamentalist wing of the revolution as well as the extremist leftists. Without the MEK, many more would have been subsumed by the mullahs’ fundamentalist ideology, and Khomeini would have been able to realize his dream of an Islamic Caliphate.   CJLPA : Considering the historical challenges faced by the MEK and other opposition groups, what strategies do you believe are crucial for fostering unity and resilience within the opposition, especially in the face of evolving political dynamics?   AS :   In forging solidarity against the Iranian regime, two critical factors must be embraced:   1) A resolute demand for the complete overthrow of the regime, including the disbanding of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC), and an unequivocal rejection of the velayat-e faqih  (absolute clerical rule) along with all its internal factions.   2) A shared commitment to establishing a democratic and independent republic founded on the separation of religion and state. This delineates the key common grounds essential for the formation of a potent political coalition against the current regime. In 2002, the National Council of Resistance of Iran (NCRI) proposed the formation of the National Solidarity Front with the explicit goal of overthrowing Iran’s ruling religious tyranny. Within this framework, the NCRI expressed its readiness to collaborate with other political forces based on three simple principles: rejecting the velayat-e faqih  system and its factions, advocating the separation of religion and state, and the commitment to a republic, while rejecting all forms of dictatorship. This proposal has been steadfastly presented for over two decades, and the NCRI remains committed to it.   CJLPA : Given the role of youth in recent protests, how can their engagement contribute to the realization of a democratic Iran and the protection of human rights?   AS : The 2022-23 protests in Iran have highlighted the crucial roles played by young people and women, showcasing their leadership and resilience. Despite the regime’s propaganda and Western appeasement, these demonstrations show the progress of Iranian society, especially in the elevated status and involvement of women. Young women fearlessly took the lead in the protests, confronting the Revolutionary Guards and organizing widespread demonstrations. These were not spontaneous actions with no historical precedent. The uprisings are the culmination of over 40 years of struggle by the Iranian people, marked by significant sacrifices such as the 1988 massacre of 30,000 political prisoners. Women, in particular, have played a pivotal role in steering the resistance, guiding and mobilizing the youth in various instances of protest, reflecting a collective aspiration for substantial change. Thousands of young people are actively participating in the MEK-affiliated Resistance Units inside Iran.   Despite facing brutal repression, with over 750 protestors killed by the IRGC in 2022, the situation remains volatile, characterized by increased strikes and protests. The uprising, led by youth, unequivocally illustrates the Iranian people’s yearning to end religious dictatorship and establish a republic based on free elections and democratic values. It has exposed and rejected false alternatives, underscoring the pivotal role of the youth, especially women, in the Resistance Units. Young people are also actively engaged abroad, particularly in leading demonstrations in world capitals against the regime. The annual Free Iran World Summit witnesses numerous young Iranians advocating for a free and democratic country. Additionally, many youths are present in Ashraf-3, Albania, home to thousands of members of the MEK, which stands at the heart of advocacy for freedom and human rights in Iran. Human Rights Violations   CJLPA : Expanding on your critique of the Iranian regime, could you provide examples of specific instances where political, religious, and socio-political rights have been systematically violated?   AS : The Iranian regime is fundamentally ingrained with the systematic violation of basic freedoms and rights, constituting an integral part of its core identity. This regime is built on two fundamental principles: domestic suppression to counter the absence of popular consent and terrorism abroad aimed at imposing its medieval ideology on the modern international order. The origins of the regime’s oppressive tactics can be traced back to its inception, driven by the necessity to enforce its medieval religious rule against the prevailing desire of the people for a modern, secular state. However, the wholesale reign of terror reached a turning point with the uprising on 20 June 1981. That is when millions across the nation, with half a million in Tehran alone, peacefully protested against the regime’s efforts to monopolize power. The response was swift and brutal, involving mass arrests, torture, and executions. Detained protesters, enduring severe torture, remained resilient, refusing to divulge even their identities. The ensuing reign of terror reached its apex in the 1988 massacre. In 1988, facing strategic and existential challenges on the verge of his demise, Khomeini issued a handwritten religious decree, instructing the complete extermination of political prisoners, predominantly members of the main opposition MEK. This heinous act claimed the lives of 30,000 political prisoners, over 90% of whom were MEK members. The massacre, labelled by Amnesty International and legal experts as a ‘crime against humanity’, was seen by some scholars as a genocide, orchestrated to eliminate a population with differing religious beliefs.   The regime’s relentless assault on dissent continues today. Political dissidents and peaceful protesters are systematically arrested, tortured, and executed. Amnesty International and the United Nations have documented thousands killed and tens of thousands imprisoned and tortured during the nationwide uprisings in 2017, 2019, 2020, and 2022. The regime boasts the dubious distinction of having the highest per capita execution rate, underscoring its ruthlessness. In 2023 alone, more than 864 have been executed, including many dissidents and members of Baluchi, Sunni, and Arab minorities. Moreover, it stands as one of the most misogynistic regimes globally, perpetuating systematic violations of women’s basic rights, curtailing their freedom of attire, and restricting their participation in socio-political life.   CJLPA : In the recent crackdown on protestors, how do you see the Iranian government’s actions impacting the rights to fair trial, freedom of association, and the right to life?   AS : The regime has killed and imprisoned thousands of peaceful protesters in recent years. In 2019 alone, the regime massacred over 1,500 protesters. The mullahs lack a genuine popular support base, relying instead on repression and exploiting Western appeasement to maintain their grip on power. Faced with protests, the regime’s response has been marked by the use of lethal force against unarmed demonstrators, resulting in widespread killings and torture. Regime officials openly issue harsh crackdown orders, leading to the deaths of numerous young men and women, as evidenced by available footage and documents. Amnesty International has verified the killing of children during these protests, and the regime has resorted to mass arrests, conducting house-to-house searches in certain cities. The regime’s tactics include physically assaulting protesters, inflicting injuries such as blinding them with pellet guns, and deliberately shutting down the Internet to suppress news coverage of the atrocities. Despite the severity of this extensive and brutal crackdown, international reactions have regrettably been limited.   In a report published on 6 December 2023, entitled ‘Iran: Security forces used rape and other sexual violence to crush “Woman Life Freedom” uprising with impunity’, Amnesty International provided harrowing details on the use of sexual violence and rape by the security forces and judiciary enforcers against young men and women alike. To quote Amnesty International’s Secretary-General Agnés Callamard:   Our research exposes how intelligence and security agents in Iran used rape and other sexual violence to torture, punish and inflict lasting physical and psychological damage on protesters, including children as young as 12. The harrowing testimonies we collected point to a wider pattern in the use of sexual violence as a key weapon in the Iranian authorities’ armoury of repression of the protests and suppression of dissent to cling to power at all costs. [1]   CJLPA : Mahsa Amini’s tragic case highlights a challenge to freedom of expression. In your view, how does the government’s response impact not only women’s rights but also broader rights related to expression and dissent?   AS : This tragic case transcends mere freedom of expression; it shows the inherent misogyny embedded in the Iranian regime’s DNA. Despite the pivotal role Iranian women played in toppling the Shah’s dictatorship, they have endured over 40 years as worse than second-class citizens, systematically excluded from sociopolitical engagement. The mandatory veiling imposed on women serves as a blatant manifestation of the regime’s assault on fundamental freedoms.   The 2022 uprising, catalysed by the tragic death of Mahsa Amini at the hands of the regime’s security forces, symbolized a resounding call for freedom and democracy. It constituted a firm rejection of the theocracy grounded in the velayat-e faqih  principle, overwhelmingly perceived as a fundamental impediment to freedom, democracy, and economic prosperity. The uprising underscored that the younger generations are aligned in their demand to dismantle all forms of dictatorship in Iran, including the monarchy that preceded the clerical regime and empowered the mullahs.   The slogans echoed by the protestors, coupled with the high price paid in the form of torture and death, exemplified their unwavering commitment to a vision of a secular, free, and democratic republic in Iran. This envisioned Iran would prioritize economic progress over nuclear armament and foster peaceful relations with its neighbours. Conversely, the regime’s response underscored its utter intolerance for dissent, brutally suppressing calls for basic freedoms and rights and proving to the world that it must be overthrown.   CJLPA : How does the intertwining of theocracy with governance contribute to human rights violations in Iran?   AS : The ruling religious dictatorship in Iran systematically violates the fundamental rights of its populace, undermining the essence of human existence. It suppresses political opposition, curtails freedom of expression, and discriminates against minorities and women, all under the banner of Islam. The regime has perpetrated mass executions, denied the right to free elections, and established an absolute totalitarian state. Egregious violations include the brutal war on the people of Kurdistan, atrocities against Arabs in Khuzestan, systematic killing of the Baluchis in the southeast, and widespread execution and imprisonment of MEK members. Unresolved dossiers include political killings like the chain murders, mutilation of Christian priests in the 1990s, the Qazvin uprising in 1993, and crimes in Kahrizak prison in 2009. The theocratic regime strips Iranians of their right to determine their future, claiming to act as God’s representatives. All non-regime political activity, associations, gatherings, newspapers, and information dissemination are strictly prohibited. Opposition to the regime, especially with the MEK, results in severe punishment.   Religious persecution targets dissidents and followers of various religions, with inquisition, excommunication, and charges of apostasy used for suppression. Gender discrimination persists in civil laws, with corporal punishments, torture, and flogging. Women face state-backed oppression, including acid attacks, compulsory veiling, and extensive monitoring. Iran’s diverse ethnic groups suffer systematic deprivation of equal rights, essential services, and communication in their mother tongue. Property rights violations involve confiscation of opponents’ properties, exploitation of public lands, and looting profitable enterprises, enabling control of over half the country’s Gross National Product by Khamenei and the Revolutionary Guards. Workers’ rights, student associations, and the right to form independent syndicates are systematically denied. Families are denied knowledge of their loved ones massacred in 1988, as the regime obscures mass graves. The regime’s crimes are committed under the guise of acting on behalf of God and Islam, contrasting with the MEK’s opposing reading of Islam, making them the antithesis to the regime’s existence. The regime attempted to annihilate the MEK to justify its crimes under Islamic teachings.   CJLPA : You highlighted the elevation of individuals implicated in the 1988 massacre to prominent positions, including President Ebrahim Raisi and others in his cabinet. How do you see the composition of Raisi’s cabinet impacting the prospects for human rights and the rule of law in Iran?   AS : Raisi’s cabinet is alarming due to its inclusion of individuals with backgrounds steeped in terrorism, embezzlement, and mass murder. The entire Iranian regime, not just specific cabinets, has thwarted any prospects for improvements in human rights. Nevertheless, the composition of Raisi’s cabinet carries significant implications. Raisi himself, a member of the Death Commissions in 1988, holds a dark history responsible for the mass murder of tens of thousands of political prisoners. Khamenei’s strategic choice of Raisi as president indicates the regime’s dire need for a proven henchman to suppress current popular protests and forestall its potential downfall. Despite Raisi’s brutal crackdown, which has resulted in 1,777 executions since he took office, the Iranian people remain committed to overthrow the regime. The regime’s oppressive measures have failed to quell rising protests, indicating that the Iranian people refuse to succumb to intimidation and terror. The human rights situation is poised to rapidly deteriorate further under Raisi’s administration.   CJLPA : Given the prevalent human rights violations and lack of accountability in Iran, what specific measures do you believe should be taken to achieve justice, especially for the victims of the 1988 massacre (historical human rights abuses) and recent crackdowns on protestors?   AS : Ali Khamenei, Ebrahim Raisi, Gholam Hossein Mohseni Ejei, and other regime leaders must face justice for genocide and crimes against humanity. The Iranian regime’s human rights dossier, particularly the 1988 massacre, should be referred to the UN Security Council for further action. The truth is that if the regime is not held accountable for its past crimes, its future crimes will be inevitable.   CJLPA : Beyond the political sphere, how have accusations of corruption and lack of transparency affected the social fabric of Iranian society, and how do these issues contribute to human rights concerns?   AS : The regime’s systematic and rampant corruption has unleashed the forces of poverty and social exclusion. Official reports indicate a doubling of people below the absolute poverty line, with an estimated 36 million individuals falling into poverty in 2020. A staggering 70% of Iranian society reportedly lives below the poverty line, according to a member of parliament. Uneven wealth accumulation has resulted in a significant surge in commodity prices for average citizens. The overall cost of living has surged, exacerbating the challenges faced by women and families, especially amid the twin crises of poverty and the aftermath of the coronavirus pandemic. Many Iranians are grappling with dire needs for food, housing, medical care, clothing, and other essentials, compounded by a decline in income and a drastic rise in everyday expenses.   The economic fallout from the coronavirus pandemic has pushed numerous businesses to the brink of bankruptcy, resulting in widespread job losses. Some food items have witnessed a staggering 90% price increase, and housing rentals have multiplied. The escalating poverty line and pervasive inflation contribute to a disturbing rise in child marriages. The situation is particularly dire for women in Iran. Extreme poverty has led to severe employment inequality, with a decline in the number of working women and a disproportionate impact on them during the pandemic. The majority of working women are engaged in informal employment, making up 60% of employment in Iran, exposing them to greater vulnerabilities, particularly concerning health, safety, and labour laws.   These economic dynamics are influenced by endemic corruption. The integration of military forces into economic activities and rapid privatization policies has led to the concentration of wealth among the elite. The result is a stark contrast between the colossal wealth amassed by less than one percent of the population, including the offspring of state officials, and the poverty experienced by millions of Iranians.   Corruption has permeated almost every sector, leading to the manipulation of resources such as water, control over university entrance exams, and the erosion of free education. Transparency International’s report ranks Iran 147th out of 180 countries in terms of economic and administrative corruption. The state-run ‘Rokna’ website reported on 26 September 2023 that:   In a troubling situation where 7,000 schools across the country lack basic amenities like drinking water and sanitary facilities, it has come to light that students from affluent families in Tehran are opting to order food from the upscale school menus for their daily lunch. [2]   A significant share of oil revenues is allocated towards domestic suppression and sponsoring terrorism abroad. The ongoing nationwide protests since 2017 are a manifestation of the people’s understanding that corruption and poverty will only end with the overthrow of the clerical dictatorship.   The National Council of Resistance in Iran: Partnering with the International Community CJLPA : In advocating for democracy, what role does the NCRI play in addressing the rights and freedoms you’ve highlighted?   AS : The NCRI fulfils a pivotal role by showing a path forward for the Iranian people and the global community—an alternative that stands ready to usher in a new era post-regime. Central to this vision is the NCRI President-elect Maryam Rajavi’s 10-Point Plan, a visionary blueprint that upholds fundamental principles such as human rights, gender equality, minority rights, the separation of religion and state, and the abolition of the death penalty. This plan serves as both a compass and a foundation for the future of Iranian politics. The NCRI has strategically directed its central energy towards shaping the future trajectory of Iran. Comprising twenty-five committees, the NCRI actively exposes the regime’s manifold abuses, shedding light on the socio-economic challenges plaguing Iranian society and proposing expert-backed solutions. Functioning as a dynamic hub, it mobilizes collective intellect to brainstorm, crowdsource ideas, and devise strategies for the extensive challenges that will confront a liberated Iran after the regime’s overthrow.   Moreover, the NCRI fosters a culture of open dialogue and tolerance through its extensive activities, gatherings, and frequent sessions. It is a tireless champion of inclusivity, diversity, and pluralism by serving as a microcosm of Iran’s rich mosaic of ethnicities, religious affiliations, and sociopolitical orientations. Over 40 years, it has endured and thrived as the longest-lasting political coalition in modern Iran, weathering formidable geopolitical challenges one after another.   Notably, the NCRI stands as a staunch advocate for women’s rights and freedoms. Beyond mere rhetoric, it integrates these values into its culture and historical identity, ensuring mechanisms, checks, and balances to safeguard women’s rights. With more than half of its members being women, including Maryam Rajavi herself, the NCRI exemplifies a commitment to women’s empowerment that extends beyond mere symbolism.   CJLPA : Considering the rights outlined in the NCRI’s ten-point plan and your writings, which do you see as most crucial at this point in time, and how does the NCRI navigate challenges in promoting these rights?   AS : These rights and freedoms constitute a comprehensive and interconnected framework, each reinforcing the other. As I mentioned earlier regarding the velayat-e faqih principle and the theocratic nature of the regime, the mullahs’ fundamental impediments have stifled these essential rights and freedoms. Consequently, the Iranian regime actively launches extensive demonization and vilification campaigns, particularly targeting the NCRI and its President-elect. The regime’s objective is to erase the concept of a viable alternative from the minds of both the Iranian people and the international community. Unfortunately, some elements in Western media and certain policymakers have shown a degree of susceptibility to the regime’s propaganda.   The Iranian reality is that there exists a modern, inclusive, tolerant, progressive, non-ideological, well-organized, financially-independent, and thoroughly representative democratic coalition embodied by the NCRI. It does not want foreign meddling or wars in Iran. All it asks for is moral support from the international community. This coalition stands as a compelling alternative to a fundamentalist, warmongering, and terrorist state. This pivotal narrative has been overlooked by the media for an extended period, to the detriment not only of the Iranian people but also of generations in democratic countries who have borne the strategic consequences of engaging with this regime. Just envision the potential impact if policymakers and public opinion influencers accurately portrayed the reality of the NCRI. It would have massive consequences not just for Iran but for the region and beyond.   CJLPA : The NCRI looks toward the international community for support in bringing about democratic change in Iran. How does the organization aim to balance its reliance on global backing while maintaining its independence and credibility as a genuine alternative to the current regime?   AS : The conflict between the clerical regime in Iran and its people has created a convergence of interests between the Iranian people and the global community. The epicentre of terrorism and warmongering, the head of the snake, if you will, lies in Tehran, prompting the Iranian Resistance to seek international support for democratic change. We are not asking western powers for direct intervention to overthrow the regime, but we are calling for a halt to misguided policies that have aided the oppressive regime, enabling it to prolong its rule and spread chaos in the Middle East. The Iranian Resistance urges an end to appeasement, emphasizing the right of the Iranian people to struggle for regime change and a free Iran. Concessions to the regime would only embolden its oppressive and terrorist policies. The West should categorize the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) as a terrorist entity, expel regime agents from European institutions, reinstate UN Security Council resolutions, and reimpose sanctions against the clerical regime. To curtail Khamenei and the IRGC’s financial resources, activating the snapback mechanism to prevent oil revenue influx is crucial. Recognizing the Iranian people’s fight against the regime and the youth’s resistance to the IRGC is paramount. The call for justice involves holding regime leaders like Khamenei, Raisi, its Judiciary Chief Gholam Hossein Mohseni Ejei, and others accountable for genocide and ongoing crimes against humanity. These measures underscore the actions the international community can take. The Iranian Resistance, steadfastly relying on the Iranian people, remains independent in its pursuit of democratic change.   CJLPA : The ten-point plan outlines an ambitious vision for the future of Iran. What practical steps and strategies does the NCRI envision to gradually implement these points, especially considering the complex socio-political landscape in the aftermath of the current regime?   AS : A central mission of the NCRI is to conduct transparent elections for a national and constituent assembly within six months, steering Iran toward a democratic trajectory. This commitment stands as a stark repudiation of failed theocratic and monarchical models, echoing the NCRI’s foundational declaration of ‘no to the Shah and no to the mullahs’. Embracing principles of freedom, people’s sovereignty, and gender equality, the NCRI is a counterforce to regimes built on torture, murder, plunder, treachery, and deprivation. Rooted in the struggle against the Shah and the subsequent oppressive rule of the mullahs, the NCRI emphasizes the transfer of sovereignty to the Iranian people post-regime overthrow. This commitment is encapsulated in the NCRI platform’s recognition of the people’s right to determine their destiny, a principle further refined by the need to provide resources and avenues for citizens’ active participation in decision-making.   Beyond its foundational principles, the NCRI has been instrumental in fostering cooperation among disparate groups opposed to the regime’s tyranny. The 2002 ratification of the Plan for the National Solidarity Front underscores the NCRI’s openness to collaborating with forces seeking a democratic, independent republic divorced from the monarchy or religious dictatorship. Confronting the rise of religious fascism, the NCRI formulated the Plan on Provisional Government’s Relations with Religion in 1985, categorically rejecting religious coercion and advocating for equal rights irrespective of religious beliefs. The 1981 NCRI Platform, advocating for equal political and social rights and the elimination of gender, ethnic, and religious privileges, remains a cornerstone.   The NCRI’s commitment extends to addressing the oppression faced by women in Iran. For over three decades, the NCRI has championed a plan to eliminate gender inequalities, inspiring Iranian women to actively engage in the struggle for freedom and equality. To this end, the Mrs. Rajavi has articulated a detailed 12-Point Plan on the rights and freedoms of women. Autonomy for oppressed ethnic minorities has been a consistent focus, with the NCRI presenting a comprehensive 12-point plan for the Autonomy of Iranian Kurdistan in 1983. This enduring model reflects the NCRI’s dedication to solving post-Khomeini Iran’s problems while adhering to democratic principles and the people’s interests. Notably, the NCRI, pledging not to seek power but to transfer it to the Iranian people, has outlined a roadmap for a transitional government. Free elections for the National Constituent and Legislative Assembly within six months of the Transitional Government’s formation underscore the commitment to a peaceful transition of power. In internal relations, the NCRI diverges from traditional power balance dynamics, adopting a ‘one vote for every member’ principle regardless of organizational size. Decisions are based on a simple majority, with the NCRI President ensuring collective decision-making, fostering a truly democratic ethos. Amid the challenges of exile, the NCRI perseveres through debates and persuasion, emphasizing the importance of public opinion, general elections, and free public debates. This commitment to democratic ideals underscores the NCRI’s credibility, its enduring struggle, and its impactful role in inspiring progressive generations toward freedom.   CJLPA : You call for the International Criminal Court to adjudicate the 1988 massacre as a crime against humanity. Is it even possible for the ICC to do this, especially considering it is an institution that has been heavily criticized of being biased?   AS : There are varied perspectives regarding the International Criminal Court (ICC), but when it comes to its mandate, prosecuting individuals accountable for ongoing crimes against humanity undeniably falls within its scope. Practically speaking, the ICC has the authority to initiate proceedings against leaders of the clerical regime, as evidenced by its actions in comparable situations. Therefore, the primary issue isn’t the capability of the ICC or perceptions about it, but rather the political will to act, not only within the ICC itself but also across the broader international community. This highlights the need for a concerted global effort to address such crimes.   CJLPA : On the discussion of sanctions, how do economic measures impact the Iranian government’s behaviour regarding human rights, and are there alternative strategies worth exploring?   AS : To begin, it is a fallacy to presume that easing international sanctions will compel the Iranian regime to abandon its belligerent policies or improve the lives of ordinary Iranians. Paradoxically, 2013’s Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA or ‘Iran Deal’) saw a surge in the Iranian regime’s terrorism in the region and across Europe. Likewise, recent clandestine negotiations initiated by the US administration have emboldened the regime to escalate its acts of terrorism. In November, a prominent Spanish politician supporting the NCRI was shot in broad daylight, prompting police investigations into ties to the Iranian regime.   Concessions would only serve to bolster the mullahs further. The series of uprisings from 2017 to 2022 have shattered any illusions about the regime’s stability. The regime is now at its most vulnerable state, and providing assistance to it will only exacerbate the suffering of the Iranian people without averting its inevitable downfall. Consequently, while comprehensive sanctions remain crucial, they must be accompanied by additional measures as part of a broader policy of assertiveness against Tehran. Notably, this policy should encompass support for the organized resistance movement of the Iranian people and the acknowledgment of their right to self-defense.   Effectively addressing the Iranian regime necessitates three vital steps. First, the policy of easing sanctions must cease, activating the snapback mechanism and reinstating UN Security Council Resolutions. Second, both the US and the EU should formally recognize the Iranian people’s struggle for regime change. Third, the international community should endorse the legitimacy of the youth’s struggle against the terrorist IRGC. They are defending themselves against tyranny because the regime has closed all peaceful avenues. Increasing sanctions, recognizing the Iranian people’s struggle, and endorsing the youth’s resistance will convey a strong message to Tehran’s tyrants.   CJLPA : Considering the role of the current regime in perpetrating human rights abuses, do you think the regime is in a position to bring about genuine justice and uphold the rule of law in Iran? If not, what alternative mechanisms or entities could facilitate the establishment of justice in the country?   AS : The regime will never uphold genuine justice or rule of law. If anything, human rights are deteriorating significantly in Iran. The Iranian regime’s human rights dossier, particularly the 1988 massacre, should be referred to the UN Security Council for further action. If Western countries believe that the regime can improve human rights, then they should make any negotiations or normalization of ties contingent on the abolishment of the death penalty or improvement of human rights in Iran. Again, the only lasting solution lies in the overthrow of the regime in its entirety.   The Post-Regime and the Future   CJLPA : How can the building of democratic institutions address not only political rights but also social and economic rights in post-regime change Iran?   AS:  The Iranian people have endured two major dictatorships since the pivotal 1906 Constitutional Revolution, which aimed to establish a democratic parliament. Both Reza Khan and his son, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi (Shah), and the clerical regime since 1979 have undermined the democratic achievements of their respective revolutions, monopolizing power and suppressing dissent. The recent protests reflect a collective awakening, with chants like ‘Death to the oppressor, be it the Shah or the Leader (Khamenei)’. The regime’s attempt to divert protests by resurrecting ‘Reza Khan’ underscores their fear of an alternative narrative.   In the early 1950s, Prime Minister Mohammad Mossadeq, a democratically elected leader, not only nationalized Iranian oil but also championed progressive legislation for women’s rights, workers, students, and families. Both the Shah and clerics resisted Mossadeq’s progressive reforms. They allied with foreign powers to overthrow his democratic and progressive government. When peaceful avenues for political representation were closed, socio-economic rights suffered under both regimes. Contrastingly, the NCRI upholds the legacy of the Constitutional revolution of 1906, Mossadeq’s ideals, and the 1979 anti-monarchical revolution. Advocating for the rule of law, elections, and a representative form of government, the Iranian people now aspire to establish a secular and democratic republic.   CJLPA : Considering the global audience, how can people and organizations worldwide express solidarity with the Iranian people and contribute to the cause of human rights and democracy?   AS :   People and organizations worldwide have voiced their support for the Iranian people and their organized opposition through their legislative bodies and elected representatives. Last year, 125 former world leaders endorsed the NCRI’s 10-Point Plan, as did 3,600 parliamentarians in 61 legislatures, including 29 majorities, in 40 countries. They can further support the Iranian people by compelling their executive branches to stop appeasing the mass-murdering theocracy. In   her 23 November 2023 visit to the European Parliament, Maryam Rajavi outlined the right approach for expressing solidarity with the Iranian people, stressing that ‘the head of the snake is in Tehran, the epicentre for the export of terrorism and warmongering’. She called on the international community to:   Place the IRGC on the terrorist list; Shut down the regime’s embassies in Europe; Expel the regime’s agents and spies from European institutions; Restore the UN Security Council’s six resolutions, consistent with Resolution 2231 and re-impose the sanctions against the clerical regime; Trigger the snapback mechanism to prevent oil revenues from pouring into the coffers of Khamenei and the IRGC; Recognize the Iranian people’s struggle for the regime’s overthrow and the young people’s fight against the IRGC. [3]   CJLPA : What do you see as the most formidable challenges for those advocating change in Iran, and how can these challenges be addressed effectively?   AS : Recently, Dr Alejo Vidal Quadras, a former European Parliament Vice President who was shot in the face on 9 November 2023 by agents suspected of having ties to the Iranian regime, said:   The West has tried to appease, to negotiate, to dialogue, and to make concessions. We have now all the evidence that this approach has not worked and it will never work. One can make the effort to compromise with a rational enemy. Reaching an agreement with irrational Absolute Evil is just impossible. [4]   Appeasing the Iranian regime and acquiescing to its demands and blackmail remain to be one of the main challenges. Western powers routinely either remain silent or facilitate restrictive measures against the organized opponents of the regime. This has led to a culture of impunity, which has only emboldened the medieval theocracy in furthering its abuses at home and its intransigence abroad.   CJLPA : Drawing parallels with historical revolutions, what lessons can be applied to the ongoing struggle for freedom in Iran, and how can the mistakes of the past be avoided? [5]   AS : The world can certainly learn some lessons from British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain’s appeasement of Hitler. In 1938, he went to Munich to sign an international agreement with Hitler. He called it ‘peace for our time’. Hitler promised he had no more territorial demands to make in Europe. But, in less than a year, Chamberlain was forced to go to war with Germany. In his 5-minute speech to declare war, Chamberlain said that Hitler’s ‘action shows convincingly that there is no chance of expecting that this man will ever give up his practice of using force to gain his will. He can only be stopped by force’. On 3 September 1939, he concluded: ‘Everything that I have worked for, everything that I have hoped for, everything that I believed in during my public life, has crashed into ruins’. Appeasing dictators is a dangerous game. That’s the first historical lesson.   The second lesson is around the importance of having an alternative after the overthrow of the theocracy in Iran. When addressing the alternative to the Iranian regime, it’s not a mere rhetorical claim but a robust framework steering the multifaceted struggle against the oppressive regime. The alternative functions as the guiding force, orchestrating the course of actions in this battle. It elucidates the necessary steps, defines the direction, sets priorities, and safeguards the Iranian people’s assets from the regime’s plundering machinations. In essence, the alternative serves as the benchmark in the quest for overthrowing the clerical regime.   To underscore the roots of this alternative, exemplified by the NCRI, it has been fortified through a protracted and challenging resistance against religious tyranny. This force opposing religious fascism has meticulously devised plans, developed a comprehensive program, and paid the price for its day-to-day defiance. In recent years, despite mounting difficulties, it has augmented its capacity to bear heavier responsibilities and confront the regime. An integral aspect of the alternative lies in maintaining political demarcations and upholding democratic principles. The alternative stands as a bulwark against the encroachments of the enemy while practicing honesty, sacrifice, and an unwavering commitment to the cause of freedom. In contemporary political discourse, there’s a proliferation of fabricated alternatives. However, the crux of the matter lies in their practical approach to bring down the existing regime. While fantastical visions of rapid change may be entertained, the hard realities dictate that the overthrow of the regime requires an organization with a sturdy political alternative.   Over the past century, Iran has witnessed the failures of two dominant currents: the despotic rule of monarchy and the subsequent religious dictatorship. The regimes of Reza Khan, his son Mohammad Reza, Khomeini, and Khamenei have all led Iran down paths of dependence, despotism, war, suppression, hunger, and disease. The rejection of both models—monarchy and religious tyranny—gave rise to the NCRI, founded on the unequivocal declaration of ‘No to the Shah and no to the mullahs’. This rejection is rooted in opposition to torture, murder, plunder, treachery, and the deprivation of the people’s rights. In 1979, the Western world was caught off guard. It scrambled to support an alternative to the failing regime of the Shah and succumbed to the mullahs. This time around, there is a strong alternative that represents democratic ideals. The West can ill afford to avoid supporting it. The alternative represented by the NCRI is not a theoretical construct but a resilient force shaped by decades of unwavering resistance. It stands as a beacon for a democratic, independent Iran, grounded in the principles of freedom, gender equality, religious freedom, autonomy for ethnic groups, human rights, economic justice, and national solidarity.   CJLPA : If you could convey one message to the global community encapsulating the essence of the Iranian struggle for rights and freedom, what would that message be?   I believe the global community must recognize and support the resilient fight of the Iranian people for their fundamental rights and freedom. This is not merely a battle against an oppressive regime; it is a profound quest for basic human dignity, democracy, and the right to self-determination. Our resistance, led courageously by women and the youth, is not just a series of sporadic protests but a sustained movement forged through relentless sacrifice and unwavering hope.   It is critical to understand that Iran’s geostrategic position in the Middle East means that the political direction it takes will have a lasting impact on its neighbours. A democratic Iran would be a lynchpin for enduring peace and stability in the region. This geopolitical reality makes it doubly imperative for the world community to stand with us in our quest for liberty. Our struggle, while deeply nationalist in its roots, echoes a universal cry for freedom and justice and serves not just our national interests but the broader interests of regional and global stability. We seek not just the world’s attention but its active solidarity. Understand that the spirit of our movement is a testament to the indomitable human will to thrive against tyranny, and it deserves the unequivocal support of the global community in fostering a future where peace, democracy, and human rights prevail.   CJLPA : What next, Mr Safavi? Where do we go from here?   AS: We will continue and expand the activities we have undertaken so far. The Iranian Resistance consistently emphasizes that the sole responsibility for overthrowing the clerical regime and establishing a democratic government in Iran lies with the Iranian people and their organized resistance, represented by the NCRI. They are committed to continuing their efforts, both within Iran and internationally. The MEK-affiliated Resistance Units inside Iran have seen growth in their activities, both in scale and impact, and this expansion is set to continue.   Externally, the Resistance is focused on persuading Western nations to shift away from a policy of appeasement towards a more assertive stance, holding the Iranian regime accountable for its actions. Given that the regime in Tehran has effectively shut down all avenues for political activism, the Resistance argues that the international community should acknowledge the right of the Iranian people to confront the regime’s oppressive forces. This includes initiating a nationwide uprising aimed at toppling the regime, a move the Resistance views as essential for achieving democratic change in Iran. This interview was conducted by Solomon Njombai, Legal Researcher at CJLPA. Solomon, an Advocate of the High Court of Kenya, holds a Master of Arts degree in International Relations and an LL.M in Energy Law. His primary focus lies in comprehending how energy intertwines with global issues and how it drives interactions between states on a global scale. [1] ‘Iran: Security forces used rape and other sexual violence to crush “Woman Life Freedom” uprising with impunity’ ( Amnesty International , 6 December 2023) < https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/12/iran-security-forces-used-rape-and-other-sexual-violence-to-crush-woman-life-freedom-uprising-with-impunity > accessed 10 March 2024. [2] See Mansoureh Galestan, ‘Iran’s Regime Thrives on Corruption, Though Not for Long’ ( NCRI , 26 September 2023) < https://www.ncr-iran.org/en/news/economy/irans-regime-thrives-on-corruption-though-not-for-long/ > accessed 10 March 2024. [3] Maryam Rajavi, ‘Conference at the European Parliament, Strasbourg’ (22 November 2023) < https://www.maryam-rajavi.com/en/conference-strasbourg-parliament-standing-against-main-instigator-war-iranian-regime/ > accessed 10 March 2024. [4] ‘At the European Parliament, MEPs join Maryam Rajavi in urging EU to blacklist Iran regime’s Revolutionary Guards’ ( EU Reporter , 23 November 2023) < https://www.eureporter.co/world/iran/2023/11/23/at-the-european-parliament-meps-join-maryam-rajavi-in-urging-eu-to-blacklist-iran-regimes-revolutionary-guards/ > accessed 10 March 2024. [5] See Ali Safavi, ‘How Iran’s Revolution Mirrors Those Of The Past’ ( Eurasia Review , 16 November 2022) < https://www.eurasiareview.com/16112022-how-irans-revolution-mirrors-those-of-the-past-oped > accessed 10 March 2024.

And the windows are into pieces I have to go With my shoes torn With my clothes torn With my heart broken With my mind heavy With my hands painful To where I don’t know And I have to go And War must come It takes everything Ruins them Disvalues them Destroys them And War Ruins me Disvalues me Destroys me Like I don’t exist anymore Like I didn’t exist ever before And War everyday In everywhere Goes on Nobody cares, but I don’t understand Why do I have to leave Why do I have to miss My home My friends My bookcase My love I miss me and the time That I was reading a story Or watching a movie Now I am in the story Now I am in the movie In the middle of a nonsense world In the heart of a War Among the numbers of a line of news Being read Being ignored Being heard Being ignored Being seen Being ignored Not dead But buried   25 August 2021. Kabul, Afghanistan   In August 2021, my family and I travelled across Afghanistan, searching for a way out. One time, on the way, our bus broke down, and we were in the middle of nowhere surrounded by mountains. There was no other car that could take us, so we walked for hours. My 15-year-old brother was carrying our only luggage, which contained a pair of clothes for each one of us and the dearest of our belongings. The Taliban, with their cars and their guns, were passing us, and my dad constantly was saying do not look at them. Walk as if they are not here. With a long black scarf covering my whole body and face, with my head down, and the Taliban all over the place, having every means to do every harm to my family. 2 days later, we were at the Torkham border. We spent the night sleeping on a dirty ground. It was dark and horrifying. The thoughts were frozen in my brain. I was so numb, so dreamless. I felt I was not dead yet, but the Taliban were pouring soil on me. As a reader, I am in love with words and the change they can create. There is an English expression that I really like, which is 'NOT EVEN IN MY WILDEST DREAMS'. So in that moment of terror, not even in my wildest dreams did I ever think that in less than two years, I would be speaking before the United Nations to advocate for my people. Soomaya Javadi Soomaya Javadi is a Hazara human rights activist who fled Afghanistan with the help of the 30 Birds Foundation. Actively advocating against ethnic or gender-based discrimination, she is part of the '#StopHazaraGenocide' movement. Currently, Soomaya is working as an early childhood educator and studying at the University of Saskatchewan.

Brought from my cousin’s Shropshire home early September 2023, the spalted limewood log from which  Eyeless in Gaza  is carved had been left barely protected from the elements after the tree was felled by a storm. It was over four years since that disaster. Axe and saw joined the host of creatures that had invaded the wood before I started to cut with the gouges and chisels of the woodcarver. There was no idea to start with—only to incise and discover. Following routes burrowed by small insects, such as woodworm, and moulds into bark and sapwood seemed a way to learn its story and find what I, as co-sculptor with these small beasts, could expand.  The wood was rough with uneven texture that often did not hold together. I removed much of this outer material, hoping to find firmer ground for a more durable image. As I was cutting an archway through soft tissue aiming to have a strong primary image through which to enter, news came of the fearful events of 7 October at the Gaza border. Without doubt, the response to the initial attack would be savage in the extreme. Nothing could be done to stop this humanitarian disaster, in the first days at least. Pain of all the victims pulled into this vortex of horror directed my excavations. The madness of a double history of oppression, the lack of air, inability to speak or breath, the weight of rock, the fearful scramble to escape, the hands reaching for help—always the hands. The fissures in this partially rotten trunk echoed the nature of that riven land, constantly torn asunder for three thousand years. No claim could justify what was being inflicted—not now, when the whole world needs to work together to save the very air we breathe.  This is the broken citadel, the yearnings of many peoples who would break each other and therefore themselves rather than share. As the images became clearer I was conscious to hold back and not indulge in too polished a depiction. (In any case very little of the wood allowed it.) Art, even in tragedy, is not meant for cruelty but for cleansing, for catharsis—to transform us into whom we truly can be. How could I assuage some of the sorrow of the images that appeared?   Hidden inside our hearts is the fire of life, the eternal light passed from generation to generation. I found a pit in one side of the ‘rock’ of the tree and carved into it to create a cave. This holds a lamp whose translucently covered flame shines with the rhythm of a heartbeat. Willow Winston   Wide-ranging art practice, including engraving, painting, and theatre design, laid the foundations of Willow Winston’s sculpture. Her metal constructions embody in material form the beauty and emotional power of abstract mathematical concept. With work in public collections in the USA, the UK, and Canada, she has exhibited on both sides of the Atlantic and taught from postgraduate to primary level.   Committed to innovative educational methods, she has developed ways of using art to teach sciences. Her current major concern is working with community groups involving painting to make and exhibit collaborative sculpture. She was elected to Membership of the Royal Society of Sculptors in 2016 and appointed Patron of Centrepieces Arts Project for Mental Health in 2021.

On 15 August 2021, the Taliban seized control of Afghanistan. The ‘Apagan’ operation initiated an airlift that successfully evacuated approximately 2600 Afghans to France. However, two weeks later, the airlift operations concluded, leaving a considerable number of the remaining 40 million Afghans trapped within the confines of Afghanistan. Since then, numerous Afghans, compelled by threats related to their profession, gender, or opinions, have been forced to either hide or flee. Those who manage to escape often find themselves stranded in neighbouring countries such as Pakistan, Iran, or Turkey, struggling to survive in precarious conditions. Among them are families yearning to reunite with a spouse or child in France, single women grappling with uncertainty, children, judges, journalists, and activists—all seeking refuge from a country they no longer recognize or one that no longer recognizes them. Limited Legal Routes to France In light of the challenging circumstances faced by Afghans, there are very limited safe and legal routes available for them to reach Europe. Regardless of the process, visa applications must now be submitted in a neighbouring country since nearly all European consular authorities are closed in Afghanistan. For foreign nationals to enter France legally, a short- or long-stay visa is required. However, Afghans fleeing their country for an indefinite period must secure a visa allowing them to stay for at least three months. It is only with these long-stay visas that they can apply for asylum or a residence permit upon arrival in France. Long-stay visas for France can be sought on various grounds such as family, education, profession, or humanitarian reasons, but they are only granted if specific conditions are met. These conditions are often impractical to fulfil, especially when the applicant’s country of origin is in the midst of a humanitarian or political crisis. Consequently, the opportunities for Afghans to obtain French visas are significantly constrained. The objective of this contribution is not to provide an exhaustive list of theoretically available legal paths for all foreign nationals but to examine those actively utilised by Afghans to reach France. Practical barriers such as linguistic, financial, or administrative reasons largely exclude visa applications related to professional activities or studies due to the stringent conditions they impose. For example, it is practically impossible for a non-French-speaking Afghan engineer to secure a work permit for a French company remotely, a prerequisite for obtaining an ‘employee’ visa.   The Inaccessibility of Existing Legal Routes Understanding legal and administrative procedures plays a crucial role in their use. Yet, it is currently truly challenging for an Afghan national to access information on the process required to obtain a long-stay visa for France. The absence of consular or associative presence in Afghanistan, the lack of readily available information, and the complexity of procedures make their use laborious. In practice, the processes used often involve the presence of a family member in France. This primarily concerns family reunion and family reunification, which upholds the right to family life for foreigners legally residing in France. Family reunion (‘ regroupement familial ’ in French) is accessible to individuals who have been legally in France for 18 months and can prove that they have ‘stable and sufficient’ resources as well as accommodation of a satisfactory size and standard of comfort. If the person in France meets these strict conditions, they can apply for a visa for their spouse and minor children. Family reunification (‘ réunification familiale ’ in French) is the right of individuals who have been granted asylum in France to be joined by some of their family members. When the refugee is an adult, their spouse and children under 19 can apply for a visa to France. If the refugee is a minor, their right to family reunification concerns their parents, possibly accompanied by their minor children. This right stems from Council Directive 2003/86/EC of 22 September 2003 on the right to family reunification , which stipulates that: Special attention should be paid to the situation of refugees on account of the reasons which obliged them to flee their country and prevent them from leading a normal family life there. More favourable conditions should therefore be laid down for the exercise of their right to family reunification.[1] Unlike family reunion, family reunification is not subject to housing, resources, or duration of stay conditions. However, despite these more favourable eligibility conditions, applicants face numerous practical obstacles that make the procedure complex, if not impossible. Firstly, many eligible individuals are unaware of the existence of this procedure. When they are, they often only have access to partial—or sometimes incorrect—information about the way the procedure is implemented. It is therefore essential to improve access to information on these procedures to make them more effective. Without simplification in various aspects, the utilisation and success rates of procedures will remain excessively low. To grasp the intricacy of the process, one need only examine a fundamental step: scheduling an appointment at the French visa centre. The procedures vary depending on the country where the application is submitted. Essentially, there are as many appointment scheduling procedures as there are countries with French consular representation. Consequently, Afghan families aiming to apply for a French visa contend with at least three distinct procedures, contingent on whether they choose to go to Iran, Pakistan, or India—the three countries where French consular services have jurisdiction over Afghan nationals. It is crucial to harmonise the practices of French consulates to ensure effective access to these legal routes. Furthermore, the waiting times to secure appointments are highly unpredictable. For instance, obtaining an appointment in Tehran without referring the matter to the French courts has been impossible for almost a year. Hundreds of Afghan families are currently stranded in Iran or elsewhere, awaiting the opportunity to apply for a visa to France. Sparing Issuance of Other Types of Visas Much more rarely, other types of applications are possible. For example, when a family member is a French national, they can apply for a visa for their spouse, children under 21, or dependent parents. For the latter, it is necessary to prove that the family member in France has been supporting them for several years and can continue doing so without the parents being allowed to work in France. However, most situations do not fall into any of the aforementioned categories. Many Afghans therefore attempt to apply for a protection visa, commonly referred to as an ‘asylum visa’. Although attractive on paper, this has not been proven to be an effective process in practice. The asylum visa application is not regulated by any legal statute and is therefore subject to the complete discretion of French authorities. It is evident that this lack of regulation does not favour applicants who, except in rare cases, do not receive answers to their requests. It appears that the very few times these visas have been issued, it was established that the applicant faced persecution or a real and current personal risk due to their actions in favour of freedom or their particular profile. It was also proven that the applicant remained personally threatened in the country they fled to (Pakistan or Iran for instance) without being able to rely on the local authorities’ protection. A strong connection with France seems to be an additional condition. In any case, the same accessibility difficulties mentioned previously also apply to these procedures, further limiting their effectiveness. Unfitted Procedures for Afghans’ Reality These visa application procedures often last several months or even years and incur significant costs. Applicants must obtain civil status documents from the Taliban, which often takes months and costs a lot of money. They must then travel to the country where the application needs to be submitted —usually Iran or Pakistan— which involves getting visas for these countries, finding a means of transport, and on-site accommodation. It is common for families to end up selling their houses or other property to cover the costs. These steps can be very risky depending on the personal situation of the applicant. Currently, in Afghanistan, a woman cannot travel more than 72 km or carry out administrative procedures without a mahram  (a male chaperon). She also cannot take a plane or cross borders without being accompanied. Therefore, it is very risky for a single woman to obtain civil status documents or leave Afghanistan to submit her visa application in a foreign country. Other people are being persecuted due to their professional background or political opinions and therefore cannot rely on the Taliban authorities to carry out these procedures. Without these travel or civil status documents, visa applications cannot be processed. Hence, people sometimes prefer to flee the country by any means, even if it means taking considerable risks. Unfortunately, obtaining the documents and travelling to the country where the application is submitted is far from the end of the road. Once their application has been submitted to the French visa centre, they must wait several months before receiving a decision from the embassy. The legal deadline of two months is systematically well exceeded. In the meantime, some remain in the country where they applied, with no housing, no income and sometimes no residence permit. Others must return to Afghanistan while their application is being processed and then return to the visa centre to receive the embassy’s decision, whether positive or negative. In all cases, the passage through neighbouring countries is often very traumatic for the Afghans, who are not welcome in these countries, where their expulsions and degrading treatment are on the increase.[2] If visa applications are rejected, applicants must appeal this decision to the French courts within one month. Applicants can then wait up to a year and a half before obtaining a ruling from the administrative court. Even when French visas are finally delivered, feelings of joy and relief are quickly overshadowed by practical realities. French authorities offer no support regarding travel and arrival in France. Applicants must therefore pay for their own tickets and make provision for accommodation and a way to support themselves on arrival, with the risk of being left destitute. Furthermore, their regularisation upon arrival in France is not automatic. To lawfully stay in the country, they must submit asylum or residence permit applications within three months after the issuance of the visa. Without social support on arrival, all this is an uphill battle especially given the lack of information provided with regards to the formalities to be completed upon arrival. The Need for Urgent Measures to Protect Afghans Wishing to Travel to France The possibilities for Afghans to reach France through legal routes are very limited and their arrival conditions are not satisfactory. Improvements are possible, by making procedures both more accessible and effective. Such developments are necessary and realistic but require a political will that is still awaited. Meanwhile, 97% of the Afghan population lives in poverty in a country where public floggings, forced marriages, arbitrary executions, and organ sales are increasing.[3]   The loud statements made by French and European authorities in support of Afghan women must now be followed up by action. Solidarity with the Afghan people must take the form of safe and legal channels available to those who see their most fundamental rights being taken away every day. The lack of safe routes forces refugees to take deadly journeys to reach loved ones and seek asylum. No one should risk their life to reach safety. Salomé Cohen Salomé Cohen is a lawyer specialising in human rights, asylum law, and international law who works as a legal coordinator for the NGO Safe Passage International. As part of this work, Salomé Cohen trains and supervises pro bono lawyers and child welfare services in assisting Afghan nationals with their family reunification or asylum visa applications. [1] L 251/12. Online at < https://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2003:251:0012:0018:en:PDF#:~:text=The%20purpose%20of%20this%20Directive,territory%20of%20the%20Member%20States . > accessed 11 March 2024. [2]  Ayaz Gul, ‘Pakistan, Iran Jointly Deport Over 500,000 Afghan Nationals ’   ( Voa News, 21 November 2023) < https://www.voanews.com/a/pakistan-iran-jointly-deport-over-500-000-afghan-nationals-/7364231.html > accessed 10 March 2024; ‘ Iran/Turkey: Fleeing Afghans Unlawfully Returned After Coming Under Fire At Borde rs’ ( Amnesty International, 31 August 2022 ) < https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/08/iran-turkey-fleeing-afghans-unlawfully-returned-after-coming-under-fire-at-borders/ > accessed 10 March 2024. [3] Multiple authors, ‘Millions of Afghan Lives And Livelihoods In Danger Without Support, Says UN Development Programme Chief’ ( UN News, 30 March 2022) < https://afghanistan.un.org/en/176250-millions-afghan-lives-and-livelihoods-danger-without-support-says-un-development-programme > accessed 10 March 2024; ‘Amnesty International Report 2022/23: The state of the world’s human rights – Afghanistan 2022’ (Amnesty International, 27 March 2023 )  < https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/asia-and-the-pacific/south-asia/afghanistan/report-afghanistan/ > accessed 10 March 2024.

Frances Hui is policy and advocacy coordinator for the Committee for Freedom and Hong Kong Foundation. Having become an activist at the age of 14, Hui left Hong Kong to study journalism in the USA in September 2016. After returning to Hong Kong, she became the first Hong Kong activist to be granted political asylum in the United States following the adoption of the National Security Law in 2020.   CJLPA : I’d like to begin by thanking you, Frances, for speaking with The Cambridge Journal of Law, Politics, and Art  to discuss your story of having to leave what became a threatening Hong Kong after you fought endlessly for human rights and democracy. I was hoping to learn more about your personal experiences in Hong Kong. What ignited the spark in you to speak out for human rights and democracy for the people?   Frances Hui : During my speech in Geneva, I mentioned that the first protests that I had ever been to were [regarding] the 20th anniversary of the Tiananmen Square massacre. In Hong Kong, we traditionally have an annual vigil to commemorate the incident and that was my first time attending a public assembly. At that time, I was about ten years old, I think—growing up, learning of Hong Kong as being part of China and then all of a sudden getting to know like this piece of history was very daunting for me—and [especially] the fact that it only happened about ten years before I was born. It feels very close to me, it was just two decades ago, not a long time ago. The fact that in Hong Kong we are able to rally publicly, legally, without exposing ourselves to risk, I feel like it’s some sort of like—I don’t know I don’t know if it applies to everyone—but it feels like there is some sort of responsibility that comes to me. I feel like being a Hong Konger we should utilize the rights and freedoms that we enjoy. So it was a powerful moment to be in the middle of the crowd, knowing that everyone has the same values. It is very powerful when you chant the same slogan, and have people surrounding you who are with you and upholding the same values and probably had a similar culture as you growing up as well. It is something that draws me to public rallies, people’s movements. The feeling of being in the crowd and surrounded by people with the same values—I think that was the time that when my eyes were opened and I realised that this is our privilege and it is something that we should treasure and enjoy.   CJLPA : You became involved with activism at such a young age. What specifically were the rights and civil liberties infringed upon by the CCP in Hong Kong when you were growing up that brought everyone together?   FH : I think that when I was growing up way, the way that the CCP is trying to manipulate, Hong Kong is a little different from now. We always describe the situation as like putting a frog in a room temperature water, where it does not realise it is being cooked until it is done cooking. Now, I think [the situation] is more drastic [in terms of] the way that they infringe on our rights. Right now in Hong Kong, people don’t necessarily have the rights to go to the streets and speak up for themselves and speak up against a government. Back then, it was different. We had all those rights and freedoms. We had a legal system that hold the governments accountable. We had the justice system, even if we were arrested or something like that. But more so, I think people in Hong Kong back then were trying to create progress in order to achieve a democracy. One thing that we always try to tell people is that Hong Kong has never enjoyed a full democracy—a one person, one vote type of democratic system. In fact, it was promised in the basic law that eventually Hong Kong would develop its own electoral system and that people get to vote for their chief executive. That was one of the reasons why the 2014 Umbrella Movement broke out. I think before 2019, all we were trying to do was make progress on that promise, to eventually allow Hong Kong’s people to choose their own leader, the chief executive.   What the Chinese government is trying to do is to is to allow that space for discussion and activism, but at the same time use their power to introduce bills that would undermine or slow down progress. At the same time, they also introduced different kinds of policies to integrate Hong Kong into China. For example, there was a change in immigration policy or customs policy, where people in the mainland could come to Hong Kong easily. They are building infrastructure that allows people go in and out of Hong Kong from the mainland more easily. Also, bringing students from the mainland to Hong Kong schools, forcing Mandarin as the main language of schools, things like that. It is more like subtle assaults—always working in the back. This is in contrast to the present day—now, they do not care about any sort of international pressure, even to the point of breaking the promise of the Sino-British Joint Declaration. So, it is very different. But I think now we are only standing on the edge, only fighting for our own freedom to speak up. Compared to back then, it is very different.   CJLPA : I want to touch on the events in 2019, because as you said before, it was more protesting in respect to what had already been promised. You had been expecting to have your own chief executive and were going to be able to partake in your own elections. Could you walk me through what was happening at that time in Hong Kong and why everyone took the streets?   FH :   Basically, the movement broke out in 2019. How can I begin—it is quite a long story which actually starts around late 2018. There was a couple in Hong Kong who went to Taiwan for vacation, and the boyfriend killed the girlfriend and buried her in Taiwan and then returned to Hong Kong. Later on, the Taiwanese government authorities found the body of the girl and pressed charges on the guy. However, at that time he was already back in Hong Kong and Hong Kong and Taiwan do not have a permanent extradition agreement—most of them are case by case. So, if someone were to return to Hong Kong [after committing a crime in Taiwan], the Hong Kong government and Taiwanese government would have to make a one-time extradition agreement to extradite the criminal to Taiwan. The then-chief executive, Carrie Lam, used this as an opportunity to say that we should have an extradition agreement, an amendment on the extradition law that allow us to be able to extradite criminals to mainland China and Taiwan.   To China, their concept [of themselves] includes Taiwan. I think it is an excuse to make it work—it sounds like they want to help the situation, but in fact a lot of policymakers and lawyers came out and said ‘you’re tricking us’, this is going to expose [Hong Kongers] to greater risk of being extradited to China. People were mostly worried about journalists, politicians, and activists being extradited to China and put under China’s judicial system and in trials under China’s judiciary. That is basically a breach of our independent judicial system and in the past, there have been disappearances of Hong Kongers. They disappear in Hong Kong and all of a sudden show up on China’s state TV to apologize or something. These kinds of things threaten Hong Kongers, our concepts of Hong Kong’s society as being [a] safe [place] to speak out, protest and advocate for our own rights. Because of that, organisers in Hong Kong called for a citywide rally, I think it was on 9 June. I think that there were one million people on the streets on that first day.   This continued to build up because the Legislative Council had to vote for the bill or the amendments. People basically went to the Legislative Council and tried to stop the votes, trying to siege or surround the Legislative Council to avoid that from happening. On 15 June or after, Carrie Lam finally suspended the bill but before she even responded there was a lot of police brutality. Many people were arrested and labelled as rioters, which under the law can be given up to a ten year sentence. So people were not only asking for rejection of the bill, they also asked for justice for the people who were arrested, harmed, or who died in the movement. At the end, the ultimate demand was to give Hong Kongers the right to vote or universal suffrage. Moving on, it is not just about the extradition bill—many people came out because they were angry about how police handled the situation and about how the government handled the situation using police force, and refused to listen to the people’s voices and continued to undermine our rights.   CJLPA : At the time, there was a lot of broadcasting where the focus was mainly regarding students that were protesting—was that the case? Do you find that younger generations were more willing to speak up? And if so, do you think that’s because the older generations refrained, or simply did not agree with the younger generation and were happy with the way things were, or just wanted to avoid conflict?   FH : You touch on a lot of different things. I do not think I have ever seen like a poll that asked what the age distribution was, or why people did or did not go to the streets. I would say that many times students are front lines of the movement because obviously, the most straightforward answer is they have more flexibility, they are healthy and they move fast. But I think that they also have less personal responsibility. They do not have much to worry about [in comparison] to the older generation. The [members of the older generation] have their families, they have properties, they have houses—you just have more burden or more responsibility as you grow up. You might have a job or something that you cannot compromise, or things like that—in contrast, for students we have the future ahead of us.   The future of Hong Kong is on the second generation. It is not their Hong Kong. It affects younger generations deeply because we realize that if Hong Kong goes down that way, we will suffer and the next generation will suffer too. I think that speaks to the reason why a lot of [young people] went to the streets. Another aspect of this is that a lot of the older generation have families in China and they tend to have emotional bonds with China after having been under the rule of the British as a colony and having had to separate from their own mother. They have seen China slowly develop, economically or socially making progress, and they have probably have families in China. There are many reasons why [the older generation] would have that kind of emotional bond [to China] compared to [the younger generation]. Many of us were born in Hong Kong, we grew up in Hong Kong, which entails a different culture from China. I think even back then, when Hong Kong was still very free, there was a time that the younger generations developed a localism theory that we only care about Hong Kong, and that Hong Kong should be the priority. We should care about the local values instead of thinking that ‘only if China democratised, then we can achieve our democracy’.   So I think it is a new ideology, that the people of Hong Kong should focus on Hong Kong instead of relying on China to democratise or things like that. That also speaks to the difference of how the older generation have more of a bond with China, and they interestingly sympathise with the Chinese government and think that it is the younger generations making trouble. Many of them would say that it is causing trouble, that [the younger generation] goes to the street, destroys things, cause shutdowns on the city, and that of course the police should clear them out, to maintain the stability of the city. So, you know, it is just them making sense of [what is happening], like we both of us are making sense of our actions And eventually it became more polarised. Moving forward, there have been other times during which many members of older generations supported the movement. For example, we once had a rally that basically translated to ‘silver hair group’, like ‘silver hair protest’—where people had silver hair, which means the older generations coming out to support the protest. It is beautiful.   CJLPA :   I was hoping that you could share a bit from living in Hong Kong up to the point when you had to leave. What were some of the more horrific acts that you saw take place from the government which truly violated human rights?   FH : Well, there are a lot but just off of the top of my head, the police have a code of action and some sort of rules to abide by—if they use excessive force, they should be held accountable. During the protests they were not only using batons to beat people, fighting, cuffing people, but are also making undercover arrests—pretending to be protesters, infiltrating their teams, and arresting people. Imagine holding someone to the point that they cannot move. Batons are supposed to be aimed at the lower body, but they were aimed at the head, beating people until they bleed heavily. There were incidents during which actual bullets were used to shoot students who were barely armed. The [students] were wearing only shirts and they hit them with bullets straight to their chest. It is lucky that they did not die, but all of them suffered physical and emotional stress. Even now, those victims continue to send out updates to people because they have good times and bad times with their bodies. They are still fighting, their bodies are still fighting because of the impact of that incident. They also use non-lethal weapons like rubber bullets or tear gas guns aiming at a protester’s head. All of these [methods] violate international law regarding how they are meant to use those crowd control weapons. I think these were in different media coverages—it is right in front of us. In my opinion, that is the truth of human rights violations.   Another huge problem is that many people who were arrested came out and shared their experiences with police after the arrest, either in the police station or in the car—they were treating them as if they were criminals or war criminals. There were also sexual assaults and sexual abuse allegations. There were female protesters who were arrested and shared to the world that they had been raped in the police station. There are even videos of female protesters being called sluts, I personally had a male friend who experienced police objects being shoved in his buttocks. So it applied to both female and male protesters. I believe that is sexual violence—[however], these experiences can’t be verified because the police authorities were not taking it seriously or were not holding investigations and holding them accountable. At the same time, from the very beginning in June they removed their police IDs from their uniform so no one could identify who did things and report to the police authorities what they experienced. They formed an investigative unit to look into the police behaviour but was a very biased report. It does not do [the protestors] any justice at all It was just a political show, saying you know, ‘we have done something, we have investigated it, and that is all we have’.   CJLPA : Was it in 2021 that you sought political asylum in the US? What drove you to make this decision and what would the consequences have been had you stayed in Hong Kong?   FH : Well, I first left Hong Kong because I was warned by friends and other people who had insider tips regarding my risk while staying Hong Kong. The national security law was imposed in July, and a few weeks after that I was warned by many people about the government using this law to target people. They will prioritise people who are involved in foreign policy and, in their words, colluding with foreign forces. Before the law came into effect I was most known for my advocacy, international advocacy for Hong Kong. I have lobbied governments to pass bills for Hong Kong, I spoke publicly and coordinated rallies in the US, and so I was told that, as you know, I am definitely on the target list, I have a great risk of being arrested eventually and that is their priority when they start using the law. So I left Hong Kong.   I left town a few weeks after [the law] came into effects and at that time, all of my friends were saying ‘it’s fine, it’s probably just going to be, you know, like going out and just to let it chill for a little bit, maybe you would be able to come back and we will see how this law is actually being used’. It was more like, just to be safe, let’s get out first. But the week after my departure they had their first planned arrest on a 19-year old activist named Tony. Then they arrested the pro-democracy activists who ran for election. I immediately realized like that this is what I am exposed to, this is real, it is serious and I should make a decision of whether I should still go back to Hong Kong or stay for good. So eventually, like just looking afar of what the developments were in Hong Kong, I decided I should look for a way to stay in the US instead of going back. So, yeah, that is basically like the reason that I applied for asylum in the US.   CJLPA : Thank you for sharing that. Can you speak more towards the situation in Hong Kong today? The situation has gotten increasingly less media attention over the years, but is that an indication that things have gotten better? How has it been for the people since you have left?   FH : I think the recent strategy of the Hong Kong government is to try and brand Hong Kong as back to normal, that it is still the international financial centre you have always known. They have ramped up their marketing and their propaganda efforts not only locally, but also on the international level, to make people think that it’s all back to normal—but at the same time like simultaneously, there are trials going on right now. The Hong Kong 47 trial is happening—those people have been in jail since 2021 just waiting for the trial to happen. We are waiting for a verdict. Apparently, it is not even a crime for which they have been convicted. They have already been in prison for over two years and you know, obviously the civil society was demolished and a lot of organisations have been disbanded. Either they were threatened or they felt there is future risk in continuing to function. There are hundreds of civil society organisations, media outlets, and unions that were all shut down after the national security law. It caused a problem where no one is monitoring Hong Kong and Chinese government.   Back then, you had all these organisations that are watching the governments. Looking at movements from the Legislative Council, what kind of policies that they are introducing. Now, you can only rely on very limited media sources to find these things out. At the same time we have always been taught that Hong Kong has separation of powers—the administration, a legislative council, and the court. They are all holding each other accountable—but now in the Legislative Council, all the pro-democracy politicians or activists are either in jail or they have gone into exile. So you have a Legislative Council there to vote and discuss bills but then it is all a political show for them to exist. In the court, obviously you still have the judges that you have always had, but the people who are sitting in the National Security Law cases are all designated judges and prosecutors appointed by the Chief Executive. So you can see how the government is basically flattening the system and party is basically on top of the three bodies. The only thing able to monitor the government, which is the civil society, was demolished, it vanished.   So, you know, people in Hong Kong, they’re just living their life. They work , they enjoy themselves through entertainment. but the very vital part of them going on to the streets, knowing what’s going on in their surroundings—it is gone. There are so many pro-democracy and freedom-loving Hong Kongers that are still in Hong Kong. All they can do is learn what is happening in their city, online, on their social media but they cannot do anything about it. Liking a post might put them in danger, because that could be evidence of speaking against the government—sharing it, of course, is an online trace. So, in the future, if there is tightening of control on the Internet or Hong Kongers can’t access the social media like those in mainland China then I think it would become even worse.   I think also in the educational aspects, students are pushed to integrate so ruthlessly with Chinese students and Chinese propaganda. Obviously, Tiananmen Square, any books that related to the Tiananmen Square massacre, are removed from libraries. They are eliminating all this history, applying Chinese propaganda and Chinese approved history to our education system. Our next generations may not even know what happened in 1989. They might not even know why many of their relatives or their friends left Hong Kong in that time. I think that is a snapshot of what is going on in Hong Kong right now.   CJLPA : From what it sounds like, the prospect of change or democracy has been very much discouraged—it seems your generation and everyone that took the streets in 2019 onwards have been completely silenced into fear for speaking and fighting for their story.   FH : There is this is saying that my generation is basically the last generation of Hong Kong. Like the next generation is basically considered Chinese people, because they will not be exposed to education. Even if they are taught about the basic law and separation of power, an independent judicial system, they do not see it in their city, they do not actually see it in reality and they do not get to practice it. When I was still at school I only got to know what that means through my textbooks and in the society when I saw public rallies, when I saw documentaries about the Tiananmen Square massacre. But the kids now don’t have the opportunity to do that. So there would have no difference compared to those who grew up in China, which is why people describe us as the last generation of Hong Kong. Simply everything is just going to be different.   CJLPA : You say you are the last generation. Does that mean you do not have much hope for change in the coming years, for another wave of protests and demonstrations to speak up? Or is this something where you think you have done your part, but now it is for the international community to also focus on what’s happening in Hong Kong and open their eyes to become involved?   FH : I would not say there is no hope, because if all of us are helpless, if all of us feel hopeless, and then there is no point of advocating anymore. The reason why I am speaking out and continuing my advocacy is because I think there is still space for Hong Kong and there are ways for the international community to intervene and help those spaces to be sustained and at least protect the space. Those spaces, for example, I mentioned about, you know, access to social media, access to Internet. Obviously, the government now have already blocked some websites and are even arresting people for what they post online. So obviously there is a is a violation of Internet freedom. But there are still spaces that we all still have access to: Google, Instagram, Facebook, all these other things. We still have a space to define our information online. If the international community does not intervene and help sustain that space, I am afraid the situation will become worse.   Will Hong Kong be free? If the international community will stand to the side and let this happen, Hong Kong will definitely not be freed in our lifetime. But if Hong Kong continues to be under the radar, at least we can help. We can send a message to people locally, that in Hong Kong they are not abandoned, and that we are trying our best to improve the situation. I still think that China and the Chinese government do care about their image on the international stage and it is through international pressure that we will be able to hold them accountable or at least move the needle for change.   CJLPA : As you mentioned earlier, Hong Kong is the financial district for many, many businesses—perhaps if there were different policies implemented with stricter accountability of human rights and business practices, it would issue change.   On a different point, are you able to speak more on mainland China and how the CCP’s suppression of Hong Kongers intersects with other CCP-suppressed groups, such as younger Tibetans, Taiwanese, and Chinese dissidents worldwide.   FH : I think that before 2019, a lot of us only focused on the plight of Hong Kongers when we were in Hong Kong. But as the time passes, in 2018, we started to learn about the re-education camps in China on the Uyghur population. I also interacted with Tibetan groups in the US and realized a lot of us have our paths and our pasts crossed. I realised that although we have different cultural backgrounds and we speak different languages, we are all under the same regime that is trying to undermine our freedom, to erase our identity and our culture, in a way to homogenise the Chinese Han culture and population and obviously their ideology too. If we join hands with other communities oppressed by the CCP, we can shed light on the scale of China’s human rights abuse to the international community.   Hong Kong is very different from China and Taiwan. They hope that people will still see Hong Kong as the international financial centre. They want businesses to think that it is back to normal. So it is little different from Xinjiang, where they literally do not care—they just want to eradicate the Uyghur population. They use the terms of crime control, controlling extremists, re-education, things like that to justify it. However, the main purpose of it is to eradicate our culture, our different and distinct identities. I think that it is only by working with and interacting with all these CCP-suppressed groups that we will be able to empower each other and to broaden our voice and really contextualise the scale of China’s brutal control and oppression over different communities and ethnicities.   CJLPA : What actions would you like to see come out of the international community’s involvement in this respect?   FH : Right now, China is trying to make alliances with different countries around the world, as reflected in the votes in the UN, where you have a huge score of countries supporting China’s behaviour and their actions towards groups like Uyghurs and Hong Kongers, while mostly the Western countries condemn what China is doing. We still have a long way to go to get to those people, to steer them away from China and to make them realize the problem of China, which is not limited to human rights violations, but also includes destroying world order under binding international law. The fact that they broke the treaty, their promises, and then the Sino-British Joint Declaration and their basic law means that they do not keep their promises. They don’t see that as a thing. I just think that all countries should see that as a sign that they don’t take promises seriously.   There is still a long way for us to steer them away. Individual countries have a lot that they can do to control their financial entities, like their business entities, when interacting with the Hong Kong government. For example, there were studies about Western companies helping the Hong Kong police to get weapons imports, including, I think, some in the US, some in the UK. By controlling these corporations we can make changes, all we have to do is tell the governments that people are watching. Even with Internet freedom, it was the space that I was just talking about, like the US also has policymakers who have introduced like bills to help set up circumvention tools to protect a firewall or things like that. It is not like there is nothing that we can do in our individual countries, individual states. It is just a matter of whether you want to step in and intervene.   Condemning the situation and paying attention to what happened in Hong Kong is already a very powerful tool to let the government know that we are all watching. You cannot just let them do something and let it slide. I think that’s important. Recently, the UN Working Group of Arbitrary Detention also spoke up for Chow Hang-tung, one of the human rights defenders who is imprisoned. She was moved to an individual cell because she was doing a hunger strike to commemorate the 4 June Tiananmen Square massacre when she was in jail. The Working Group basically issued a statement in a letter to the Chinese government to call for her release and condemned the action. I think this is exactly the kind of monitor we need to make sure they know that they cannot just put someone in solitary confinement for months and think that no one cares, because the international community is watching. I think that is very important.   CJLPA : Wrapping up, I want to ask about your position as policy and advocacy coordinator for the Committee for Freedom and Hong Kong Foundation. What you have been doing in this role to continue fighting for democracy in Hong Kong?   FH : This is a very general description, but all we are doing here is to make sure Hong Kong is not being forgotten by the international community. My position in the CFHKF is moreso focused on US policy towards China and Hong Kong. Many times they make connections to US legislators, Congressional members, and people in the administration, to make them aware of updates regarding Hong Kong and to push for different types of legislation that would be able to support Hong Kong and the people of Hong Kong.   Another aspect of it is to do media outreach and make sure the media can continue to monitor Hong Kong. Then again, all we are trying to do is to utilise the power of civil society to monitor the Hong Kong government and to see if there is any way that the US can intervene and support the situation, or support the people of Hong Kong For example, as I said, there is an International Freedom Bill. That was introduced in the past Congress, and we are trying to get that on for in the current Congress. For example, the Hong Kongers in Hong Kong who have difficulties finding safe haven, we advocate for refugee status for them and that is something the US is lagging behind in compared to the UK, Canada, or Australia—the provision of humanitarian pathway for Hong Kongers. So that is one thing and then you know, highlighting the issues in Hong Kong, continuing to shed light on political prisoners and calling for their release. It is also one of the main aspects of CFHKF’s mission and it is something that we continue to advocate for.   CJLPA : What final message would you like to send out for readers?   FH : I would say that there is no international financial centre that would have political prisoners in jail and that is exactly what is happening in Hong Kong. I do not see Hong Kong as the global financial hub it was before, it is just something that the government is trying to shape, to try to frame. If you look at Hong Kong, if you look at Uyghurs and Tibetans, there is a lot of evidence that shows you the CCP is the greatest threat to democracy and human rights in today’s world. They are holding hands with other regimes like Russia, Iran, North Korea, different types of authoritarian regimes to destroy world order and world democracy. If the public are not educating themselves about this and finding their ways to resist the Chinese influence in their lives it is only going to become worse. We are not only putting Hong Kong at risk, we are putting big democracies like the US, UK, our future, our next generations at risk to authoritarian regimes. We do not want to go back to the times when Soviet Union existed. I think that actually, the CCP is one of the greatest threats since the days of the Soviet Union and that if we are not taking it seriously, I am afraid we will see the second one in our lifetime. This interview was conducted by Nadia Jahnecke, the Legal Editor and Founder of 'CJLPA: The Human Agenda'. In addition to her role at CJLPA, Nadia is a qualified lawyer in England & Wales specialising in public international law.

Deva Woodly is a professor at Brown University. Her research covers media and communication, political understanding of economics, race, and social movements, focusing on the public discourse surrounding social and economic issues, and how these influence democratic practice and public policy. She is also the author of two books: Reckoning: Black Lives Matter and the Democratic Necessity of Social Movements, and The Politics of Common Sense: How Social Movements Use Public Discourse to Change Politics and Win Acceptance. CJLPA : Welcome, Deva Woodly. Could you start by talking through the process of writing your most recent book, and how you came to your main arguments for the book?   Deva Woodly : Sure. First of all, thanks so much for the interest in my work, and I’m excited to be here with you. So, how did I come to write the book Reckoning ?   Well, one, I’m a scholar of social movements. So, my first book is also on social movements, the marriage equality movement, and living wage movement in the mid-90s, from their emergence through the early 2000s. And I had planned to write a second book on economic discourse, which I still plan to write one day. It’s called What We Talk About When We Talk About the Economy.  And as I was doing research for that book, videos of police and vigilante killings of black people in the United States and globally, but mainly in the United States, started circulating online. And the social movement response to those circulating videos started to happen.   I had several reactions. One was a reaction as a person, as a black woman, as the mother of black children, and, you know, the spouse of a black man, which was a very personal response to having to deal with the onslaught of these videos, that are now a recording phenomenon. That, of course, has always been happening. But we’re now sort of right in the public discourse, and having to sort of process, the disappointment and shock of the excuses that people were making for the murdering of black people.   The second was a response as a scholar to what I thought was a unique and quite sophisticated organisation of a social movement that was growing up to combat, to push back against, and to insist on the value of black lives. I started writing several kinds of short reflections on what I thought were the organisational innovations of the social movement. And that turned into talking to some of the people who were involved. As I started to talk to some of the people involved, I started to think about the larger implications of social movements for democracy, and then, of course, the actual unique political philosophy of this particular movement. And before I knew it, I was writing these short pieces that I was presenting, you know, at academic engagements, conferences, and talks. And in one of the talks, someone asked a question from the audience. And the question was, ‘so when is the book coming out?’ And I said, ‘I’m not writing one, I don’t know’. So, it came on as almost a surprise, because I couldn’t help myself from writing about the movement as it was happening, because it very quickly became clear that it was going to be an extremely vibrant and influential one.   CJLPA : Definitely. So, what role do you think that social movements have in democracy and what role do they need to play in democracy to be able to actually make an impact overall?   DW :   Well, I mean, this is part of what I realised I wanted to write as I was working on my second book, because although I’m a scholar of social movements, and have always written about how we can understand them and their political impact, I hadn’t written all that down before, or it sort of fully realised what I thought social movements actually do in democracy. And so, one of the things that I wrote down explicitly in this book was that I think that we need to understand social movements as a democratic institution, that there’s absolutely a reason that there have been social movements as long as there has been democracy.   And that is because social movements are one of the mechanisms in democracy that allowed democracies to remain democracies and not to turn into oligarchies, because all large institutions will tend toward oligarchy, and have bureaucratization and become self-serving rather than mission-serving over time. So, social movements are the mechanism or one of the mechanisms in a democracy which allows it to be recalled to itself, mainly because it reminds decision makers and it reminds people who are sitting in institutions, that ultimately it is the people who are the authors, that they are the authority in a democracy, and they can withdraw their consent in social movements, or at least demonstrate that power to withdraw consent.   CJLPA : It’s really interesting that you put it like that, because obviously, the whole point of democracy is that we, as citizens, will elect people to represent us democratically, but that actually quite often isn’t the case. And quite often people aren’t represented. So, what can we learn from historic social movements, both those relating to the fight against racism, such as the civil rights movements, but also just more general social movements? How can we apply those to social movements today? And what can we learn from them in terms of making social movements today more powerful?   DW : Well, I think that’s the main thing that we can learn from social movements, wherever they arise. And social movements, I should say, arise on the left and the right, we should always pay attention to that. The thing that we can learn from them is the importance of organising over time. I think that this is a key lesson about social movements. Because the impact that social movements have is over the long term, it’s not actually something that shows up from one election cycle to the next, we might see sort of changes, moving the needle, electing a person, getting a policy passed, but in terms of the long term impact of changing common sense, of changing people’s understanding of who needs to be accountable and what kinds of institutions are needed to represent people, that thing happens over a long period of time. And often social movements have their greatest impact over as much as a generation or more.   So, the thing that really matters about social movements in democracy is this phenomenon called organising. And that is about creating relationships of reciprocity among people who want to build power for a particular political purpose. And that people power is the power of the polity to actually call to account decision makers, to remove decision makers from power and even to completely change the arrangement of institutions in their society. And that all happens when people have become organised over time.   CJLPA :   From the UK perspective, I feel like there was a massive increase in prominence and momentum after the murder of George Floyd in 2020. There were hundreds of protests about it and massive momentum. Do you feel that that the movement still has this momentum? And do you think that there’s still this real urge? Or do you think it’s something that needs to get its momentum back?   DW :   The thing is that whenever something is happening over a long period of time, the intensity is not going to be the same over the entire arc of the timespan. So, you know, 2020 is a sort of like a high watermark in terms of bodies in the street. But the truth is that people are still organising around the issues of racism, policing, and political economy. And also, it’s really important to understand how social movements are connected. It’s no accident that you see surges in racial justice activism, then you see a labour wave, then you see environmental protests; all of these things are connected.   We’re in a cycle of protests, where people are taking the lessons that they learn on different issue areas, and often literally, the same individuals are involved in these different pushes, to try to shape society, because we are at what social scientists call a critical juncture. That is, we’re at the beginning of a new century in which the terms which this century will be lived on – the things that we think of as necessary and proper, the policies that are adopted, the institutional arrangements that we endure and live under – are up for negotiation right now. And so, people are getting organised to try to put pressure on a bunch of different aspects of society. And the sort of intensity with which people push on different nodes, different aspects of that is going to shift over time. But rest assured that the energy that people have, the determination they have, the urgency they have, to change society for the better to overcome some of the 20th-century issues around race, gender, sexuality, and economy that have bedevilled us since the 20th century that hasn’t died down at all. And it will continue, and we’ll see more peaks until there’s some threshold moment where we can sort of measure the change.   CJLPA :   In an article that you wrote, you describe how the Black Lives Matter Movement is neither a new social movement nor an old style, traditional social movement? Can you explain a little bit more about this and how the movement works in both cultural and policy spaces and how it operates?   DW : So, in the social movements literature, there was for a long time—although I think this is less emphasised than it once was—this distinction between what are considered traditional social movements, these are usually thought of as epitomized by early 20th-century class-based movements that have hierarchical structures and are centred in organisations. That’s supposed to be the traditional social movement structure. And then there are new social movements – people started talking about them in the 1980s, in the late 90s. And these were considered more lifestyle movements, these movements were more horizontally structured, they did not necessarily have organisations, they talked a lot more about culture and personal reformations of people’s lives.   Whereas the Black Lives Matter movement and most 21st-century movements don’t fit either of these bills. And the Black Lives Matter movement in particular works in terms of both culture and institutions. It both has organisations and is horizontally structured, or at least more horizontally structured than a traditional national organisation structure. And it really values both policy work and arts and culture. And that’s because we know that political change, social change, and economic change are all wound up together, you actually have to be pushing on all of those fronts, in order to get results on any of those things. And so, this particular movement works in what I call a semi-federated structure, which is to say that the Movement for Black Lives at least works so that they have sort of tables. So, there are tables of expertise and organising tables, policy tables. And representatives from organisations that are affiliated, and individuals who have expertise come together, and they make decisions about the things that the movement might do together in terms of national campaigns, like the Mama’s Day Bail Out, or in terms of sharing resources, for example.   CJLPA :   So, the Movement for Black Lives is like an umbrella organisation for lots of different organisations?   DW :   Many different organisations. So, organisations retain their autonomy. And their expertise. That’s the point, is that organisations arise in particular regions around particular topics, and they have particular expertise. And they know what they’re doing in those terms. So, if they’re doing maternal mortality, they have particular expertise about that, if they are doing environmental justice in the Gulf region, in the southern United States, they have expertise about that. So, the movement doesn’t want to sort of dictate what their campaigns are going to be in terms of their expertise. But to the extent that there should be a national focus on something. So for example, you know, ending cash bail — or something like this, which is a United States phenomenon — if you are arrested, and you’re in jail before you’re convicted, in all states except Illinois  ( which just happened ) you have to have the judge consent an amount that you have to pay to be released out of jail until your trial time. I don’t think it’s quite the same in the UK. But this cash bail process basically keeps poor people in jail before they’ve been convicted of crimes. Yeah, and one of the one of the things that movement has organised around is campaigns to end cash bail. So far that’s been successful for the state of Illinois, where the city of Chicago is. But this idea of ending cash bail is one that people push on in all corners of the country through a collective effort. However, people have different kinds of regional campaigns and substantive expertise that they push on through their organisations or in their regions that are not, not nests that are not just dictated by national organisations.   CJLPA :   So, what sort of challenges are there then for these kinds of umbrella organisations in terms of creating an overall impact whilst trying to push their own agendas? How do they collaborate and coordinate?   DW :   Well, I mean, organising people is always a challenge. It’s agreeing on the things that we’re going to do together, as opposed to the things that may be on the agenda of my particular organisation. That’s always a complicated prospect. And then there’s the part about sharing resources, like, how will we distribute resources across organisations that are not, you know, formally affiliated with one another? So basically, that’s a question of sharing, are we going to share and to what extent and for what purpose? They’re all regular challenges that one might have in terms of trying to create collective action among many disparate groups. But, you know, one of the things about movement, whether it’s an umbrella organisation, or just the movement as a whole, is that the touch point phrase, Black Lives Matter, is something really, really important that people can and do come back to, in terms of a centring force. And unfortunately, one of the things that states, certainly American state actors, but state actors all over the globe, keep proving is that that’s a fight that is very important to have everywhere. And it’s impossible to forget, because the devaluing and destruction of Black Lives is something that state actors are really good at carrying out, unfortunately.   CJLPA :   Yeah, you are right, unfortunately. But I think that it has definitely gained global prominence. And I think one of the reasons that it, the Black Lives Matter movement in particular, but also the Movement for Black Lives gained global prominence was social media. Do you agree with that? What role does social media have in aiding social movements, and what challenges have arisen with the rise of social media?   DW : For movements, as well as for anything else, social media is a plus and a minus. On the one hand, it’s an instantaneous form of communication, which is amazing. It’s excellent, in terms of being able to communicate what’s happening in a particular place, from a perspective that doesn’t have to go through mainstream journalism filters, for example, but that can also be a minus, because people can spread lies, or have big personal fights that are not necessarily movement related online, and they become the focus instead of the work. So, it comes with all the kinds of pluses and minuses as social media does for everyone. But it does provide a coordinated capacity that is unprecedented. And it’s one of the reasons that the movement is not only sort of prominent internationally, but it’s actually transnational. Like, there are Black Lives Matter movements, or movement organisations in at least a dozen countries. And then there are also people who maybe are fighting their own fight, maybe they’re fighting for the indigenous people of their own country, or the racial minority in their own country, but who are in communication with and sharing sort of tactics work and policies, ideas with people who are in the movement in the United States, so, you know, I keep continually being surprised by the connections between, you know, anti-carceral movements, racial justice movements, environmental justice movements, in America, in the UK, in Canada, and Brazil, and Turkey, you know, places that I would not necessarily expect.   CJLPA : I personally have been amazed by how quickly things spread and how easily you can connect the different people, across all different movements. The climate change movement also comes to mind in terms of people organising hugely over social media and it having a massive overall impact.   What tactics other than social media has the Movement for Black Lives particularly drawn upon? And how has that achieved progress? What have they been able to do achieve those tactics?   DW :   Well, in the United States, in particular, because we have a federated system, one of the things the movement has been really good at is targeting local power. So, one of the tactics that’s been most successful in the Black Lives Matter Movement is ousting district attorneys, that is local juridical authorities who are regressive, and who collude with police to cover up their crimes, for example. That’s tactic that’s been unexpectedly successful in the United States, so much so that now you have organised pushback from the right wing to try to make some of these officers that had always been elected no longer elected positions, because the movement has been so good at targeting them.   So, there are a lot of tactics and techniques that have been developed in targeting local politics that have been extremely successful. This also includes changing local distribution of funds in terms of non-carceral programmes. Emergency services that don’t send police, for example, have become a lot more popular in the United States than they were pre-2020. This has, unfortunately, not actually resulted in the defunding of the police. But it has resulted in the funding of these alternatives, which for policy people helps to build up a body of evidence that these responses are actually quite effective. And so, it provides a place to push from for more extensive measures going forward.   CJLPA : And then how can we expand that quite local scale action onto a much bigger scale? Obviously, the local actions will build on each other to create an overall impact, but how else can we focus on the broader scale to create perhaps global change?   DW :   I mean, global change is a series of local changes. But also, that creates a tide or threshold. Here’s the thing: every country is different. So, the pressure points in the UK are going to be different than they are in the United States, because the United States is a federated system, and the UK is not. This is why local expertise and autonomous organisations are so important and beneficial, because the organisations and where they’re located have to figure out what the pressure points are, where they are, that they can build upon. And then as they start having local successes, it’s also about sharing information nationally, where they are, and globally about what works, and what the overall goals are, of the movement. It’s also important in terms of national or global change, to really think about culture. To really think about not only policy change — which is very important, but it’s also quite localised — but culture change, which can be much broader based.   So if we think about something like abolition, we might ask how we increase the cultural profile of this concept, so that it becomes a concept that’s available to people all over the world, as something that they understand and that they think is possible, and that they think is desirable? That is really important. How do we think about labour in this way? How do we think about environmental justice in this way? That’s what I would say on the global front; I think that culture change is actually the quickest pressure point. But it has to be coupled with actual local knowledge and policy expertise. Because it’s those things together that actually make change that’s durable.   CJLPA :   And how do we achieve that culture change? How do we educate people and ensure that individual people have that access to all of those cultural things that you’re talking about?   DW :   Social media has a role, but also making art. I really mean, culture has culture. It’s about making the argument in public. So, on social media, but also things that people often think of as frivolous that are actually quite impactful. Like making popular TikToks, that explain, you know, complicated concepts in ways that are really easy to comprehend and get forwarded all over the globe. That’s really important. Making little skits. Making television shows, having a character in your novel. It really means ‘make art’, it means impact culture. And the art doesn’t have to be made for the purpose of this political change, necessarily, in order to incorporate these knowledges, to incorporate these ideas that people may want to put into the world because they want it to shape the century that they’re going to live in. So that aspect of things is just as political. The culture makers are just as political as the sort of, policy part of things. It’s just a different approach. And the truth is, when you’re talking about societal change, political change, economic change, it all matters. It all matters. Pushing on all those fronts matters, because so many people think of themselves as not political, I’m sure you’ve had people tell you that ‘I’m not political’. But those people are nevertheless imbibing all kinds of ideas about how society should be, and then reproducing those ideas. And so, making sure that the kinds of ideas that you want to shape your century are available to people…That’s huge! And that’s work for culture makers.   CJLPA : Talking a bit about the Movement for Black Lives and its broad nature, what is the importance of intersectionality and ensuring that Black women or Black members of the LGBT community, disabled people and other people who are marginalised are well represented within the movement and that their needs are met and that their agendas are met as well?   DW :   Well, it’s always actually quite a constant struggle. Because the nature of power is such that we produce it even in situations where we are fighting for political change. So, for example, an American politics scholar Cathy Cohen writes about a phenomenon that she calls ‘secondary marginalisation’, which is that even in our social movement organisations, we tend to reproduce power hierarchies as they exist outside those organisations. And so, it’s about consciously fighting against that all the time, and making sure that you always allow the people who are affected on a particular topic to speak first on that topic, lead on that topic. And you always make sure that you are trying to decide policy, for example, decide campaigns by looking at and looking toward folks who are at the intersection of many different marginalities.   And this is not just for normative reasons. It’s not just because, you know, it’s a good thing to do, although it is a good thing to do. But it’s really also for the practical reason, as we think about oppression. Structural inequality is a knot that gets tied. And, you know, each strand of oppression is a different string that’s tied into and then manifests in a particular life situation. If we’re really as a society thinking about, okay, how can we undo these knots of oppression how can we untie them, then we have to go to the most gnarled part of it and try to figure out which strings to pull on first, so that we can actually undo this knot of oppression, rather than making it worse. Because I don’t know if you’ve ever witnessed a literal knot that’s tight, so tight. If you pull in the wrong place, if you cut in the wrong place, you just leave it in place, or you make it worse. It’s a really delicate and attention-filled operation to actually try to untie the knot and you have to pull in the right place. So, beginning with a person at the intersection of many different personalities is actually the most accurate way of trying to undo that knot.   CJLPA : Yeah, that’s actually a really interesting analogy, and I hope that that is at the centre of the movement. Can you talk a little bit more about your research for your book, how you’d conduct your research, how you picked who to speak to, and how that shaped your results and what you wrote about?   DW :   So, for the book, I use several different methodologies. But one of my major methodologies was interviewing. And the way that I did the interviews was a snowball sample. And that means that you get access to one person that you want to talk to, and then ask them to refer you to other people. So, in that way, you don’t actually get to pick who you talk to. And that way, you know, getting interviews with people who are involved in social movements is actually quite tricky. People are for good reasons, very guarded. They don’t necessarily want to talk to you, they can also feel that the academy is extractive, there’s all kinds of reasons that they may not want to talk to you. So basically, you have to be persistent, and you have to be patient, and you have to talk to anyone who wants to talk to you. And so that’s what I did, it took about four years. And yeah, it was not quick, it was not fast. And then combining that with data that we know from the public record, people’s public statements, the sort of statements and websites of organisations, public opinion, polling, like a variety of different data. And then of course my own theorisation, using various literatures in philosophy and political science.   CJLPA : How do you think that the snowball effect shapes your result? Do you think that had any impact on what people were saying or what people were sharing?   DW : I mean, I think that a snowball sample is always going to be biased toward the people who are willing to talk to people outside the movement. So that probably matters. I don’t know how exactly it matters, because you can’t know how it matters, because the people who don’t want to talk to you don’t want to talk to you. And they probably don’t want to talk to anyone else, anyone that’s not inside the movement anyway. So, you know, I think that as time goes on, and as people who are actually in movement spaces — because I’m an academic, I’m not an organiser — begin to write memoirs and articles and books, then we can compare. Because they’ll have access to folks who maybe didn’t want to talk to outsiders, because they themselves are insiders.   CJLPA : I think it will be really interesting to see if these sorts of things come out and what the differences are. So, you’ve drawn on the political philosophy of Radical Black Feminist Pragmatism, which is an intellectual foundation for the Movement for Black Lives. Can you outline what that is, and what role it plays in the movement and in transforming public opinions, and policy?   DW : This is a long answer. I will say that, you know, radical black feminist pragmatism is just the name that I gave to a political philosophy that people kept telling me as I was doing interviews. And I should say that even though I did a snowball sample, people were referring me to, and I talked to people who are in a variety of different organisations in different regions of the country who had different sort of expertise. So, they were not the same people. They were not coming from the same organisations, but they kept enunciating really similar principles. And I thought that it was so interesting, that it was so coherent. And yet it was coming from all these different places. And I thought that I should write it down. And I especially thought that it was sort of resonant with some of the things that we know and think about in political science and political theory, but also divergent from in Black Studies.   In the book, you’ll see this as a rather detailed framework. But I will say that what I noticed was that people were really interested in the radical part, the radix. And that doesn’t mean like fringe political positions. That means instead, questioning the root of things, not necessarily taking the given as the necessary. So not saying ‘oh, it is what it is, or it’s always been that way, or that’s not possible or realistic’. Those are the kinds of things that the movement didn’t want to do. They wanted to go to the root of the problem and say, ‘okay, if this is a situation, which creates a situation where Black people are disproportionately made vulnerable to death, then maybe we need to reimagine the whole situation. Maybe we need to think about safety in a whole different way. Because the police, for example, don’t make me feel safe’. That is at the radix, the root of the problem. And then Black Feminism is an ethical system that I found to be consistent across a lot of movement organisations. Now, not every single one. But, you know, across many, and Black Feminism is basically a way of approaching politics that is interested in the intersection of oppressions. It’s interested in lived experience. And it’s interested in reasoning about politics from the bottom up, from the inductive rather than a deductive position.   And then the pragmatism part of it was the part I was actually most concerned about, in terms of sort of putting that label on it, because how does the radical and the pragmatic go together? And I’ve gotten some pushback, sort of, for that terminology, from movements. But for me, the pragmatic part of it is not about being a moderate, certainly, and it’s not about political triangulation. But instead, it’s philosophical pragmatism, which is this notion that we have to be open to experimentation and iteration. That if we are interested in radical solutions, we have to be open to experimenting with implementing them, and then revising and trying again. And I think that’s very much in the spirit of movement. And, and although sometimes people disagree with the label pragmatism, they don’t disagree with that methodology.   CJLPA :   How has that shaped the way that the movement conducts its organisations? How does that experimental part of it impact the way the movement operates?   DW :   I think it’s part of what causes the structure of the organisations to be both autonomous but coordinated. So, it’s that notion that we have to be able to look at the root of these problems. We have to be willing to question given institutions in society, from the way that we think about housing from the way that we think about maternal medical care, from the way we think about families and children to the ways we think about policing. We have to be able to sort of like question the roots of what makes those arrangements harmful, or conducive to thriving. But at the same time, we have to be able to experiment with how to correct those things, how to disrupt them how to sort of blow them up and put them back together. And different organisations will do different things.   So, some people are really interested, or some organisations are really much more interested in disruption, while others are really interested in policy. Some organisations are going to be really interested in ways to have direct actions to stop the building of Cop City in Atlanta, for example, or anywhere else that they’re proposing to sort of build one, while others are interested in electing young, progressive black officials at the local and national level. There’s a wide range of activities. And I think that’s part of pragmatism. Because everybody is trying to push from where they are, everybody is trying to iterate, and go to the radix of those problems that have been identified in their own way from their own expertise, and with the resources that they have, and people are willing to learn from their mistakes.   So, for example, I am I don’t think that movement will be using a lot of its resources for national elections in 2024. They did use a tonne of them for 2020. But there hasn’t been very much yield from national elections and those resources that were put into that last election season. And so, I think there’ll be less willingness to commit a lot of resources to that in the next season. That hasn’t been the case in local politics. Local politics has had very nice yields, for us in the United States. So, there’s been a lot of successful designs of new programmes mitigation of harm that has happened at the local level. So, people might be more interested in putting resources toward that than they would at the national level. People are learning as they go.   CJLPA :   So as a final question, where do you think the movement will go next? What sort of things do you think it will be doing in the future?   DW :   Well, I think that we haven’t seen the last mobilizations from the Black Lives Matter movement, and the last mass mobilizations. Of course, there are mobilizations all the time. But I mean, mass mobilizations from the movement. But it’s also the case that the movement — as time goes on, and other social movements develop — becomes more and more intersectional. So, for example, the largest and most militant action, I think, that can be connected with the Black Lives Matter movement in the United States right now, is actually in Atlanta, Georgia, around Cop City. And that is a joint, like an intersection, between environmental justice and anti-carceral and anti-racist movements. So I think that that’s actually the future, that these different movements strands that have been sort of building in the 21st-century labour environment, you know, anti-racist movements, anti-carceral movements, the intersections of those become clearer and clearer, not just theoretically, but actually in political problems on the ground. And I think that as we go forward, you’re going to see manifestations of mobilizations and policy work that are about trying to tackle the intersection of these problems and that bring in people from a lot of different strands of movement work.   CJLPA :   Thank you.  This interview was conducted by Eleanor Taylor. Eleanor is a geography graduate from the University of Manchester, currently studying the SQE to pursue a career as a commercial solicitor.